Young, Male and Anti-Feminist – The Gen Z Boys Who Hate Women

[MondayYogurt]

Sorry it's Vice, but possibly worth discussing: www.vice.com/en/article/dyv7by/anti-feminist-gen-z-boys-who-hate-women

Half of young men in the UK now believe that feminism has “gone too far and makes it harder for men to succeed”. These are the results of a significant study published in July 2020 by anti-extremism charity HOPE not Hate. The study, Young People in the Time of COVID-19, surveyed 2,076 16- to 24-year-olds on their ideological beliefs.

I'm not getting annoyed!

I'm interested in trying to understand your activism.

Because it will be much more beneficial to donate time/ money or even just raise awareness esp amongst men about the issue and orgs that are trying to help.

Than coming on here and posting as you are.

It is in your power to act, to make positive change. If there's an issue you really care about then getting stuck in and trying to actively help is the thing to do, and the men running those charities (there may be other charities for this issue) will really appreciate your support.

In short.

Being angry at women, being bitter. Will erode you. Resentment and anger will bring you down.

You're here essentially lashing out at a number of women you've never met and don't know.

Have a think. Please consider redirecting your energy and passion towards helping men and boys. There are loads of charities etc. There are loads of things you can do to help.

Doing that is positive. It's constructive.

Railing at women you don't know will not achieve anything. And if you're at the point where you think it's a plan to go into a majority female space on the looking after women and girls topic and essentially tell us... Whatever you're trying to tell us. Then it's really time for a rethink.

What about mankind?

www.mankind.org.uk/

They are a DV charity for men.

I'm not offended.

I am a bit confused about why given you have a big interest in male suicide rates (that I agree are an issue that is good to support) you don't seem to be engaging with the suggestions about charities etc.

You seem to keep mentioning that your posts are not wanted. Maybe by some. Not by others. There's a lot of different people on here. It's an open board though. I haven't said you should go. I've offered suggestions about how to positively help with the issue you care about. I genuinely don't see how posting on here will result in helping with the issue that concerns you.

How do you think it will help?

'I know I'm probably labouring my point tbf, but I don't think it's a radical view to believe that men are also deserving of support and it's one I'll never apologise for. I just can understand why helping men is seen by some posters as 'deeply offensive'.'

So that's one poster on a site. Why focus on that? It's this thing that you're concentrating on the posts that I suspect support your ideas.

If you Google male suicide charity UK you get a lot of hits.

This one I didn't link earlier

www.prevent-suicide.org.uk/blog/alright-mate-mens-suicide-prevention-campaign/

What do you want out of this thread?

This is Mumsnet. It is female dominated. Women have dads, uncles, boyfriends, sons. Work colleagues and friends who are male.

Your determination to be angry because women don't care about men dying... Is misplaced.

On this board though we focus on women and girls. Who have their own problems here and around the world. And that's ok. You care about men. Some women care about women. No problem surely.

'I'm just trying to explain the reasons (IMO) why so many young men dislike feminism'

Young men, adult men, and much of society has always disliked feminism.

I mean. What's new.

I wasn't going to post again, but anyway.... @TriteMale you made a point of mentioning suicide rates of males and then used that as an excuse for why men need a 'men's day', yet NOW you say: but I wasn't really looking for a discussion on how to solve men's problems.

Exactly. You aren't remotely interested in looking for solutions, and you actively and purposely ignored all information NiceGerbil gave you that proved there is already more than enough help out there on male suicide. You ignored it and ignored it but thankfully NiceGerbil wouldn't let you get away with ignoring it.

So you admit you were never actually interested in solutions to male suicide and really couldn't care.

You only want to argue and whinge and attack women. You're not posting in good faith. That's abundantly clear now.

"makes it harder for men to succeed"

Well yea, they are losing their patriarchal advantage...

www.google.com/amp/s/victimfocusblog.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/amp/

What I found interesting while reading the Vice article is the absence or lack of mention of fathers. The examples given of families mentioned boys/young men and their mothers, sisters etc. I wonder if any study is being done to see if it is easier for various MRA and far right groups to latch onto boys that do not have a father figure at home or any kind of positive male role model in their lives. It's not surprising that the methods used to 'deradicalise' the boys involves face to face mentoring with men.

Boys and young men need decent male role models and father figures in their lives. I don't think women / mothers can adequately fill that role. Adolescent males need healthy outlets to express the anger and aggression that comes from a testosterone fuelled puberty, but also a man they can look up to, respect and who they know will push back on their rebelliousness.

As a society, I don't think we can afford to keep ignoring such an issue, even if feminism in general doesn't want to be a part of such conversations.

QuentinBunbury

Absolutely staggering that the first comment on the that blog was exactly what the blog was about.

"What about men" is never about concern for men's issues, it's an attempt to shame women for being selfish by appealing to the socialisation which conditions us to put everyone's needs before our own.

Men hold the majority of political positions in this country and have far greater economic power, if you are unable to address men's issues with those resources at your disposal then it may be time to admit you are not the best problem solvers. In the MRA's mind women are the cause of all the world's ill's despite the fact world was and is shaped by men, what exactly do they think we have the power to do about it?

Their lives would be so much easier if women accepted they are second class and just STFU.

I don't see many feminists putting the same effort into trying to understand issues like male suicide for example,

Every year on UWD I, along with many others, get abuse on Twitter "waahhh when is men's day"
Well (actually ) on men's day I post a lot of resources, as do many feminists (male and female) about men's issues. Mostly met with "why don't you do more for us waahhh"

Men can and should step up. But most of the whiny ones I know don't want to. They want someone else to. One resource is the Campaign Against Living Miserably. IURC set up by a woman.

If they don't help themselves why should I?

As a society, I don't think we can afford to keep ignoring such an issue, even if feminism in general doesn't want to be a part of such conversations.

Feminism can't force men to mentor adolescent males or engage with their sons.

Feminists: We're sick and tired of being raped, killed and degraded by men. Let's do something about it.
MRAs: Men have problems too.
Feminists: Yes, but we're not the source of those problems, you are. Why don't you try to do something about it?
MRA's: You're selfish for trying to stop your group being murdered and tortured by my group, when my group has problems too. It's your job to fix men's problems. Why should I care about the fact that my group kill and torture your group, if you won't fix the problem that my group is also the victim of my group.
Feminists: I support men's mental health, but there's not much I can do about what men are doing to other men. Men don't listen to women anyway.
MRA's: You're making me feel bad for describing what my group are doing to your group.
Feminists: Then be an ally and step up to call out crimes of men against women.
MRAs: Don't want to! You're a mean mummy!
Feminists: I'm not your mummy.

I have no idea why MRA's think its the job of feminism to solve the problem of male suicide; that doesn't mean we don't understand it.

Suicide has several drivers which are all well known and out of our control; mental health issues such as depression, CSA, and shame.

If you feel suicidal phone the mental health helpline. Go see your GP, take your meds, do the therapy.
If you feel shame because of your own actions, don't harm anyone else and don't self harm. Seek help. Its out there.

@PleasantBirthday

As a society, I don't think we can afford to keep ignoring such an issue, even if feminism in general doesn't want to be a part of such conversations.

Feminism can't force men to mentor adolescent males or engage with their sons.

No, that's a wider conversation to be had by society i.e. men and women in terms of the importance of fatherhood and the role of fathers in the lives of sons and daughters.

Some aspects of feminism imply the parental roles are interchangeable between the sexes or don't factor fatherlessness into any explanations put forward around the radicalisation of young men.

Some aspects of feminism imply the parental roles are interchangeable between the sexes or don't factor fatherlessness into any explanations put forward around the radicalisation of young men.

Can you elaborate? That is not an argument that I've seen.

Personally, I think the reason that feminists don't particularly talk about fatherlessness is because there's very little point in the person left to do the work and the best they can fretting about something that is outside their control.

I'm a feminist and I don't really understand why everyone's being so horrid to @TriteMale. Did I miss something? He seems like a nice man and from what I've read, is defending himself against some goady comments rather than trolling/derailing the thread.

it depends how much time you spend online with male allies "debating" feminism. You recognise patterns in how they do it, and it's exhausting.

Did I miss something?

"What about men", "feminism has gone to far", "feminism has such an image problem that lots of women won't call themselves feminists"

All MRA talking points designed to derail. There is no such thing as "good faith" debate with anyone who trots out that kind of rubbish.

Their parents should be doing a better job of educating them, I have two gen z teen boys and they are capable of differentiating between idiots on either side of the argument and the genuine cause of equality.

The reason why so many young men dislike feminism is because they don’t actually know what feminism is. And the reason so many feminists dislike those men is because they are tired of having to explain it to them.