Young, Male and Anti-Feminist – The Gen Z Boys Who Hate Women

[MondayYogurt]

Sorry it's Vice, but possibly worth discussing: www.vice.com/en/article/dyv7by/anti-feminist-gen-z-boys-who-hate-women

Half of young men in the UK now believe that feminism has “gone too far and makes it harder for men to succeed”. These are the results of a significant study published in July 2020 by anti-extremism charity HOPE not Hate. The study, Young People in the Time of COVID-19, surveyed 2,076 16- to 24-year-olds on their ideological beliefs.

Why is this thread now dominated by a male poster and his regurgitated unoriginal comments? So bloody typical.

The often crowed about stat that only 7% of women would use the label "feminist" is a red herring. 74% of women agree with or support the aims of feminism, when they are not labelled as such. Only a tiny minority are explicitly opposed to feminism.

This issue with the label "feminism" is related to many things, as @NiceGerbil has already explained. It is a lot easier for older women who don't care about attracting men (either through being lesbian or in a long term hetero relationship) to claim the label "feminist" and deal with the negative reactions towards that from men.

To Learn About the Far Right, Start With the ‘Manosphere’

The idea that feminism is decadent, and is destroying Western civilization; the idea that women’s natural role is to have children, and to be subservient to men; the idea that strong men are needed to save the world through violence—all of these arguments are found across extremist websites, and in the words of shooters themselves. Anti-feminist rhetoric is a powerful gateway to violent white nationalism, and it is calculated to appeal to the demographic overwhelmingly responsible for mass shootings: young white men.
www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/08/anti-feminism-gateway-far-right/595642/

Oh for God’s sake, the quotes ‘proving’ feminism ‘has gone too far’ are either misattributed or taken wildly out of context.
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." -- Catherine MacKinnon
As someone who had read most of MacKinnon’s works, this is a lie. She never said this. Wikiquote even says that this quote was misattributed to her - it was in fact stated in Playboy.

To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking dildo." -- Valerie Solanas
The SCUM manifesto is a piece of satire, designed to mirror misogynistic screeds against women (like Schopenhauer saying women are better than plants, Neitzsche saying women are cows, Freud saying the only purpose of women is to have babies, Aristotle saying women are deformed, mutant men, Kant saying women are incapable of moral reasoning, Rousseau saying women are incapable of deep feeling…I could go on..)She was deliberately taking the piss. In some parts the SCUM manifesto she took quotes from men writing about women and simply swapped the genders. The fact that men get so upset about the SCUM manifesto to this day, whereas women are expected to put up with thousands of years of the western canon saying they are subhuman really is a tribute to men’s sensitivity.
Gearhart was a sci-fi author, and as far as I’m aware no one takes seriously her idea of reducing the proportion of male babies.
The Dworkin quote was a quote from a FICTIONAL NOVEL. The particular quote is from the perspective of a woman character who has just been raped and is fantasising about revenge. Really, MRAs, feminist fiction has gone too far?
I don’t have the time or the inclination to go through every single one, but here’s something I note. The vast majority of these quotes (from Dworkin, Greer etc) are from radical second wave feminists. Radical second wave feminism is not the dominant feminism today. And many of these quotes are taken from theoretical works that make no sense outside of context.

@TriteMale Having an 'International Mens Day' is like wanting and White History Month or Whites Day. Or KKK day. Men are the aggressors who have abused women, held them back etc. Women are the minority group who suffered due to men. The idea to have an IMD is the same sort of vindictiveness (and it is born out of misogynist vindictiveness) that would have Trump supporters or far rightists and White Supremacists demanding a White History Month, or a Whites Day or KKK day.

Aggressors/majority groups don't get to have months or 'days'. You are insinuating that feminists were wrong to shut IMD down - you don't seem to understand how deeply offensive the suggestion of an IMD even is, or why it is deeply offensive.

That males/whites/Jews are the oppressors - just by being a male/white/Jewish'Jewish?!

Yes, I've seen an intersectionalist 'table' -in which Jews were delineated oppressors.

Yes, I've seen an intersectionalist 'table' -in which Jews were delineated oppressors

A bit off topic but:

www.jta.org/2020/01/16/opinion/why-intersectionality-fails-the-jews

You are either part of the solution or you are part of the problem trite

"Men are trash" was asking for trouble though, no?! Stupid games win stupid prizes.

"Men are trash' was a hashtag created by South African woman in outrage at a high profile domestic violence case in which a young woman was murdered by her boyfriend and then burned beyond all recognition, and grief at the fact that one woman is murdered every 8 hours in South Africa and those in charge don't seem inclined to do much about it, but sure let's get mad at the words women use to express their anger and grief and let's not get mad at the reason why they called men trash in the first place.It just feels like women aren't allowed to utter even the most anodyne criticism of men as a class without men getting pissy.

"I read “Men Who Hate Women” recently. What’s being described in that Vice article isn’t some accidental trend. Young men and boys are being specifically and deliberately targeted online and radicalised. It’s insidious and absolutely everywhere - gaming, social media, YouTube"

My thoughts exactly - it's incel talking points and 'facts' being distributed throughout mostly-male online circles.

Like how my parents aren't full on KKK members but sincerely believe that illegal immigrants get free housing and loads of benefits (thanks Daily Mail) and it's Gone Too Far

Isn't it time to grey rock the MRA?

@FOJN true that.

Mate, if men liked feminism then we'd be doing it wrong.

'This is exactly the type of view that turns men against feminism. The suggestion that we should ignore the leading cause of death of young men due to the actions of a small percentage of men.'

Men have ALWAYS been against feminism. And against women and girls in general being able to have things a bit better.

'The suggestion that we should ignore the leading cause of death of young men due to the actions of a small percentage of men.''

Who has said that?
What are men doing about it? Are they lobbying? Setting up support services? Raising awareness? Donating time and money?

You seemed to suggest earlier that a lot of this loss of life could be due to DV by women against men. Is that what you believe? What do you think men should do to find out if that's the case and tackle it?

The men I know who've committed suicide have been young- not cohabiting. So I'm not sure about that theory. Anecdata obv.

Which poster was that? Which date time etc?

Thing is you don't need s special day to raise awareness of male suicide.

You hint that a driver could be female on male dv. That's a fairly big thing. Do you have anything to support that?

The blokes I know who have committed suicide have not been cohabiting.

I can see this is an issue close to your heart.

What do you think of CALM, papyrus. The efforts of movember? Are they doing good work? Focussing on the right areas?

'For most men, a woman (their wife/partner) is their most cherished human in the whole world and somebody they would happily give their life to save'

What about women who aren't their wives/ partners?

I have found that a lot of men see women they know more as people, and others as... Not so much.

A lot of men 'cherish' the women they love by restricting their movements one way or another, to keep them away from other men. And see other women and girls as... Well they see them differently.

In the end. Women around the world are in a worse situation than men. Always have been.

I know you will disagree with that. But.

When women are focused on women and children and getting them a better deal.

Why do men do often come and say why aren't you focusing on men?

I have never met a woman who had an issue with charities or initiatives to help eg boys in deprived areas, raising money for male cancers, studies about male health issues or mental health.

Yet men often seem to get pretty of pissed off about women doing that sort of thing.

Why is that?

I imagine you feel that women and girls get special treatment in society. If that's correct, can you say in what ways you think that happens?

TriteMale
Twitter is a rabbit hole of misogyny, the way men talk to women is abhorrent. You'd have to be blind not to see and know it.

That's when they're not sitting inbpublic libraries all day no doubt having told partner they've gone there to work in peace, trolling women online, mostly celebrities. Covid at least means a breather in that they can't sit their ass in libraries anymore and staff don't have to pull the plug

Not that I think you don't know all this.

Instead of supporting each other, far too many men turn to dissing women so I'm not surprised when things go wrong, try supporting each other and maybe it'll happen less.

Damn that's a long article, it's like a book.

'Instead of supporting each other, far too many men turn to dissing women so I'm not surprised when things go wrong, try supporting each other and maybe it'll happen less.'

This is a really key point.

Male bonding over putting women down is and always has been rife.

Also IME loads of blokes just only really care about them and theirs. Charity and helping is seen as something for someone else to do. Probably some women.

Like the joking about sexual violence in men's prisons. I can guarantee you that if the next time you heard a casual comment about that. If you said. That's awful. What are you doing to change it? You would be met with a blank look.

So she didn't say what you posted at all then..

'The suggestion that we should ignore the leading cause of death of young men due to the actions of a small percentage of men.''

You never responded to my question about your views on the charities that work on this, whether you think they have the right approach etc.