“ Stonewall should stay out of trans rights war” - Times/Matthew Paris

[ChoosandChipsandSealingWax]

The organisation I helped found has lost its way since winning gay equality and is mired in an issue that isn’t its concern

Matthew Parris
Saturday May 22 2021, 12.01am, The Times

Anyone got a share token?? SUCH a shame he wrote that recent article on travellers, as that will tarnish this, unfortunately.

It's good to hear one of the figures in gay men's history speaking out. He's a former MP and a real part of the 'establishment'. I suspect that the wealthy misogynist wing in the House of Lords won't be happy to see his comments but this is how things change. The current extremes are so unacceptable that in the end, even those who have gone along with unthinking support start realising 'hang on a minute".
Lots of comments under the article from gay men all agreeing with him.

@MishyJDI

Sounds like this dude needs a history lesson about the LGBT community. Rather ironic really. Bigotry will not divide true LGBT+ solidarity. Respect, Equality and Love wins over hate - every time.

Unless you’re talking about LGB rights to be respected as people attracted to their own sex & women’s rights to single-sex spaces, of course.

Remember justawoman, we're dealing with a group of people* who believe that if something can't be found on social media it doesn't exist.

• including Ash Sarkar

I did read the article in The Times today. I thought it was a well thought out and expressed in moderate language.
Being in The Times it will be read by a wide range of people.
He warns that 'Gays' should NOT colonise other peoples problems.

There was also a very detailed and thorough article today on University of Essex.

MissLucy I’m the same. Have been commenting on these issues in The Times for many years and have seen it go from “what’s the big deal about toilets” to “I can’t believe this is happening, it makes no sense.”

A lot of people simply didn’t know what was happening, and a lot of it was happening on Twitter.

It’s been a combination of many events—Janice Turner’s Comment pieces, the Maya Forstater case, etc—but Keira Bell/Tavistock and athletes. People can be quite happy to ignore women, it’s much harder to ignore child protection and...sport. Pretty much everyone has opinions on those two topics.

When J. K. Rowling typed: “ ‘People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people,” there was no one who didn’t hear about it.

@MishyJDI

Sounds like this dude needs a history lesson about the LGBT community. Rather ironic really. Bigotry will not divide true LGBT+ solidarity. Respect, Equality and Love wins over hate - every time.

Read this article:

thevelvetchronicle.com/stonewall-vet-fred-sargeant-on-ellen-broidy-this-is-one-of-those-important-unknown-stories/

Fred Sargeant was there at the Stonewall riot and has been at the forefront of LGB rights in the US ever since and he's really clear that there were no T-people involved. And he and I are absolutely effing furious that Storme De Laverie, a butch lesbian, has been claimed to be trans. No. Leave women alone. Stop the abuse of women and the truth.

@MishyJDI

Sounds like this dude needs a history lesson about the LGBT community. Rather ironic really. Bigotry will not divide true LGBT+ solidarity. Respect, Equality and Love wins over hate - every time.

I am sure that Mr Parris would appreciate being informed about the history off the LGBT community seeing as how he obviously knows nothing about it.

/facetious

of not off

I was so glad to read this article. We need more prominent gay men and lesbians to speak up about this.

@MishyJDI

Sounds like this dude needs a history lesson about the LGBT community. Rather ironic really. Bigotry will not divide true LGBT+ solidarity. Respect, Equality and Love wins over hate - every time.

Nothing is dividing the 'LGBT Community' more than the Trans agenda.

Sounds like this dude needs a history lesson about the LGBT community. Rather ironic really. Bigotry will not divide true LGBT+ solidarity. Respect, Equality and Love wins over hate - every time.

‘This dude’ IS an important part of LGB history - he was one of the original founders of Stonewall. Didn’t you read the article?

MishyJDI - Abraham Lincoln has some words of advice for you:

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt

and in the meantime you could take the advice you are always dishing out and educate yourself.

Another clear article, this time from the Mail, suggesting Stonewall has lost its way.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9608277/MARY-HARRINGTON-group-fighting-homophobia-clashes-gay-rights-champion-theres-issue.html

We need MSM to link this up more with the extraordinary power Stonewall have been granted and the way they try to hide this by advising public bodies how not to respond to FOIs.

MP is a bit late with this article really. It's not so much that Stonewall should stay out of Trans rights war as that they shouldn't have started it. If Stonewall hadn't gone for the T things would surely look very different?

(Probably still a misogynist organisation though, prioritising gays, hence their support for surrogacy....)

Sounds like this dude needs a history lesson about the LGBT community. Rather ironic really. Bigotry will not divide true LGBT+ solidarity. Respect, Equality and Love wins over hate - every time.

Ouch. Embarrassing. Maybe you should consider a name change. Start afresh. Try and do better next time.

I presume Mishy is representative of those who think that history should be erased (not learned from) books should be burned (not read) and certain voices (especially women's) should be silenced.
Not being aware of the history of the existence of Stonewall is lamentable.

[quote Needmoresleep]Another clear article, this time from the Mail, suggesting Stonewall has lost its way.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9608277/MARY-HARRINGTON-group-fighting-homophobia-clashes-gay-rights-champion-theres-issue.html[/quote]
From the comments, we've still got work to do, to make DM readers understand why this matters. They are where Times readers were 5 years ago.

Yes the comments are depressing. I surmised the article was too long and detailed for many to read. Hey ho. Still sunlight and letting the powers that be know stonewall is on borrowed time.

@endofthelinefinally

I presume Mishy is representative of those who think that history should be erased (not learned from) books should be burned (not read) and certain voices (especially women's) should be silenced. Not being aware of the history of the existence of Stonewall is lamentable.

It’s reminiscent of Ash Sarkar accusing Julie Bindel of not caring about women in prison, on the basis of a Twitter search.

@MishyJDI

Sounds like this dude needs a history lesson about the LGBT community. Rather ironic really. Bigotry will not divide true LGBT+ solidarity. Respect, Equality and Love wins over hate - every time.

Well this is an embarrassingly stupid post.

Seems Stonewall are starting to be cut lose from companies, due to the courtcase.

Just seen this interview. Saying only women are women.

Oh Mishy, never change

Ah! I remember the Ash Sarkar debacle. very amusing, snigger worthy