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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tonia Antoniazzi MP calls for biological sex of criminals to be accurately recorded

99 replies

TedImgoingmad · 18/05/2021 14:44

Just wow really. Is the tide really turning? Is Labour really listening?

Labour MP for Gower, Tonia Antoniazzi, during the Commons debate on crime and safe streets for all, said:

Data must be accurately sex-disaggregated in order to fully understand the impact of all crimes on women and girls. In order to combat sexism, we need to count sex, and in order to combat discrimination against other groups, there is a need to record separate and additional data. The offending patterns of men and of women show the highest differential of all, so we need to monitor the sex of victims and of perpetrators of all crimes.....

‘I understand that at least 16 regional police forces now record suspects’ sex on the basis of gender identity, following the advice of the National Police Chiefs’ Council. Data based only on self-identified gender does not give accurate data on which to build a violence against women and girls strategy, nor to effectively plan services that support all victims and target all perpetrators whatever their sex or however they identify.

‘If police records are not robust and correctly disaggregated by sex, we end up with unreliable and potentially misleading data in reporting. For example, the BBC asked 45 regional police forces in the UK for data on reported cases of female perpetrators’ child sex abuse from 2015 to 2019. The data received indicated that there was an increase of 84 per cent. Data corruption means that we cannot tell whether this large increase is due to an increase in female offenders or those identifying as women, and that detail matters.

‘Women make up 3 per cent of the arrests for all sexual offences. The number of women convicted for these crimes is so low that the mis-recording of the sex of the perpetrator skews the data very quickly. Where offence categories are very rarely committed by women, the addition of just one or two people can have a significant impact on data. For example, a biological man convicted of attempted murder and other offences at Birmingham Crown court in 2017 was recorded as female, thus falsely elevating the number of females convicted of attempted murder that year in England and Wales by around 20 per cent. We need to know what action the Government will take to ensure correct police record keeping and prevent the potential corruption of data on crimes and their impact on women and girls.’*

Full speech:

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-05-17/debates/704EF355-2257-4D67-9F0C-A712E6442227/SafeStreetsForAll#contribution-26BAA3CE-A681-4E28-BFBE-B136CFEC6D4F

James Kirkup's article on the matter in the Spectator:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/mps-are-finally-engaging-with-the-gender-identity-debate

OP posts:
UtopiaPlanitia · 18/05/2021 16:53

@Thecatonthemat

email bounced . Anyone else have that problem?
I just checked my inbox and there’s an automated acknowledgment of receipt email from her email address so my email got through to her. Perhaps double check the email address for errors (that’s where I make most of my errors) and try re-sending - good luck Smile
TatoAndBeans · 18/05/2021 16:56

Excellent news. Now to see how Starmer responds....

BestIsWest · 18/05/2021 17:12

Saw this last night. She’s my MP and an excellent one. Very visible in the community too. I shall drop her a thank you.

Grellbunt · 18/05/2021 17:17

What a legend

Thank you so much

highame · 18/05/2021 17:19

The Times they are a changing 🎶🎵🎵 Grin

OhDear2200 · 18/05/2021 17:26

Fabulous.

But my God how did we get here that this needs to be said? Sad

Thecatonthemat · 18/05/2021 17:26

Thanks utopia clumsy fingers and not enough full stops!

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 18/05/2021 17:29

Ooh excellent!
I see she has also retweeted on the need for sex specific concussion guidance in rugby - I'd put my money on her understanding exactly why sport has to remain sex segregated.

SunsetBeetch · 18/05/2021 17:39

@persistentwoman

That's progress. Sadly I await her being placed on the naughty step alongside Rosie Duffield while Starmer smugly watches as another woman MP is silenced.
She must know that's likely, yet she still spoke up. Wonder if she's taking a gamble: given the criticisms of "Too Woke" Labour, if this does happen to her, it'll be all over the press?

Good on her anyway.

HeadIsFucked · 18/05/2021 17:50

The data received indicated that there was an increase of 84 per cent. Data corruption means that we cannot tell whether this large increase is due to an increase in female offenders or those identifying as women, and that detail matters.

Its obviously women getting worse and more violent /mra, rather than the even more obvious answer of 'what the fuck did you think would happen if large amounts of sex offenders realised they could identify as women and get privileges in jail, along with possibly added bonus of fucking stats and such, or even just 'having a laugh'' Hmm

GreyhoundG1rl · 18/05/2021 17:51

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea

I cannot believe this actually needs to be said.
It's mind blowing, isn't it?
GreyhoundG1rl · 18/05/2021 17:53

@TatoAndBeans

Excellent news. Now to see how Starmer responds....
And the nation holds it's collective breath... Oxygen on standby, please. This could take some time.
SunsetBeetch · 18/05/2021 17:55

As for Starmer: more splinters in the arse, I think.

HeadIsFucked · 18/05/2021 17:55

@persistentwoman

That's progress. Sadly I await her being placed on the naughty step alongside Rosie Duffield while Starmer smugly watches as another woman MP is silenced.
Yeah, I follow the Labour page on FB and they had an announcement for 'anti biphobia, homophobia and transphobia' or whatever day yesterday. SO many comments wre along the lines of 'you dont care until you fire rosie duffield', 'rosie duffleld still exists as an mp' and so on. Was depressing to read. It was surprising in that I saw no threats and such towards her mind, but that could be the mods being shit hot removing them, or the MRAs being more..sanitized in such a public forum. But yeah...seemed almost every other comment, when this is a 'niche' issue, of course Hmm

Some women were asking why she should be sacked, why its so awful to care about women and girls and such. Which were getting a lot of likes. But the amount of (largely) males whinging about how the witch has not yet been burned was..eye opening.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 17:59

But the amount of (largely) males whinging about how the witch has not yet been burned was..eye opening.

I think it is opening more than a few eyes.

EndoplasmicReticulum · 18/05/2021 18:00

I don't see how anyone can look at stories like this one linked yesterday and think "oh yes, she is definitely a woman and that should be recorded as a woman's crime, and she should be sent to women's prison".

Just nope.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4247750-This-never-happens-Again-distressing-testimony

SirSamuelVimes · 18/05/2021 18:38

That's great. Like a pp, I've given up on labour as a party but I will try to remember to send a thank you / message of support to this MP.

Leafstamp · 18/05/2021 19:12

This is fantastic news, what a great speech. I'd just like to re-post this sentence again:

Women make up 3 per cent of the arrests for all sexual offences. The number of women convicted for these crimes is so low that the mis-recording of the sex of the perpetrator skews the data very quickly.

Surely anyone with half a brain would/could realise this.

Yet again, I can't believe that something so blindingly obvious needs saying. It's like the ONS and the census.

CatChant · 18/05/2021 19:20

A rare voice of sanity in the Labour party. Having seen the abuse meted out to Rosie Duffield, Tonia Antoniazzi is brave to speak out.

What have we come to when an MP's plea for accurate data recording is going to unleash a torrent of hatred?

EnfysPreseli · 18/05/2021 19:23

Headisfucked
'But the amount of (largely) males whinging about how the witch has not yet been burned was..eye opening.'

It's exactly the same with Plaid Cymru and Helen Mary Jones. They're all misogynist bullies and no matter what a political party do to try and appease them it is never enough. They want blood.

Delighted that a Welsh MP has spoken up. Ymlaen chwiorydd!

Bancha · 18/05/2021 19:50

She has been really brave. It gave me hope. I’ve sent a thank you email.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 18/05/2021 20:14

Hats off to Tonia. Makes lovely change to hear sense from someone on the Labour benches.

As for Starmer: more splinters in the arse, I think.
Friends of mine have a squirrel in their garden that spends virtually all its time on the fence. They call it Keir...

exwhyzed · 18/05/2021 20:15

She's showing Jess Phillips how it's done.

Well done. The dominos are starting to fall.

BarbarianMum · 18/05/2021 20:23

Good for her. Really impressed. I might write to my fairly useless labour MP and suggest she lends her support.

IdrisElbow · 18/05/2021 20:23

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