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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tonia Antoniazzi MP calls for biological sex of criminals to be accurately recorded

99 replies

TedImgoingmad · 18/05/2021 14:44

Just wow really. Is the tide really turning? Is Labour really listening?

Labour MP for Gower, Tonia Antoniazzi, during the Commons debate on crime and safe streets for all, said:

Data must be accurately sex-disaggregated in order to fully understand the impact of all crimes on women and girls. In order to combat sexism, we need to count sex, and in order to combat discrimination against other groups, there is a need to record separate and additional data. The offending patterns of men and of women show the highest differential of all, so we need to monitor the sex of victims and of perpetrators of all crimes.....

‘I understand that at least 16 regional police forces now record suspects’ sex on the basis of gender identity, following the advice of the National Police Chiefs’ Council. Data based only on self-identified gender does not give accurate data on which to build a violence against women and girls strategy, nor to effectively plan services that support all victims and target all perpetrators whatever their sex or however they identify.

‘If police records are not robust and correctly disaggregated by sex, we end up with unreliable and potentially misleading data in reporting. For example, the BBC asked 45 regional police forces in the UK for data on reported cases of female perpetrators’ child sex abuse from 2015 to 2019. The data received indicated that there was an increase of 84 per cent. Data corruption means that we cannot tell whether this large increase is due to an increase in female offenders or those identifying as women, and that detail matters.

‘Women make up 3 per cent of the arrests for all sexual offences. The number of women convicted for these crimes is so low that the mis-recording of the sex of the perpetrator skews the data very quickly. Where offence categories are very rarely committed by women, the addition of just one or two people can have a significant impact on data. For example, a biological man convicted of attempted murder and other offences at Birmingham Crown court in 2017 was recorded as female, thus falsely elevating the number of females convicted of attempted murder that year in England and Wales by around 20 per cent. We need to know what action the Government will take to ensure correct police record keeping and prevent the potential corruption of data on crimes and their impact on women and girls.’*

Full speech:

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-05-17/debates/704EF355-2257-4D67-9F0C-A712E6442227/SafeStreetsForAll#contribution-26BAA3CE-A681-4E28-BFBE-B136CFEC6D4F

James Kirkup's article on the matter in the Spectator:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/mps-are-finally-engaging-with-the-gender-identity-debate

OP posts:
BobbinThreadbare123 · 18/05/2021 20:26

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-57159327
Another example. This is not a female crime and yet we all know this is the rainbow flag baseball bat git!

lanadelgrey · 18/05/2021 20:26

Sent message of thanks.
Courage speaks to courage, sisters.

Leafstamp · 18/05/2021 21:18

@lanadelgrey

Sent message of thanks. Courage speaks to courage, sisters.
I’ve also written with thanks. Certain people and views make their voices known in the other direction, so it’s a good idea to make sure thanks and support is given when those who are brave enough to speak up do so.
Thingybob · 18/05/2021 21:45

It's encouraging to see that she hasn't had much backlash on Twitter for speaking up.

GreyhoundG1rl · 18/05/2021 21:46

@Thingybob

It's encouraging to see that she hasn't had much backlash on Twitter for speaking up.
Oh, that's good. Surprising, but hopeful.
LizzieSiddal · 18/05/2021 21:49

There were rumours that many MPs wanted to speak out about protecting women’s rights, but were too frightened. I hope Tania speaking out is the first of many.

GreenTeaPingPong · 18/05/2021 21:55

This reply has been deleted

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EwwSprouts · 18/05/2021 21:57

Very clearly put. The Chief Constables need to speak up too. They are compelling officers to fabricate data.

Mollyollydolly · 18/05/2021 22:03

Emailed my thanks and cc'd in Starmer and Rebecca Long Bailey my MP (who is useless).

Mollyollydolly · 18/05/2021 22:05

She's probably not had as much kickback because she was speaking in Parliament. To a lot of activists twitter is the real world, they don't seem to notice things iike this.

OverByYer · 18/05/2021 22:05

A well written and measured speech. Hopefully the start of women being able to debate this subject without fear

GreyhoundG1rl · 18/05/2021 22:10

@Mollyollydolly

She's probably not had as much kickback because she was speaking in Parliament. To a lot of activists twitter is the real world, they don't seem to notice things iike this.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry!
wearetheweirdosmr · 18/05/2021 22:15

Just emailed a thank you

OvaHere · 18/05/2021 22:16

This is really good news. More Labour MPs need to speak to the absurdity of much of what is happening. Allowing the Conservatives to position themselves as the only party recognising material reality has been a massive mistake on their part.

ArabellaScott · 18/05/2021 22:17

Thank you, Tonia.

Have emailed in support. I bloody love getting out the thank you cards. May there be many more occasions to use them.

eurochick · 18/05/2021 22:35

It's absurd that it needs saying but I am very glad that she has said this. I hope she doesn't get "cancelled" for doing so.

Letsgetreadytocrumble · 18/05/2021 22:45

Fantastic!

She'll be next on Owen Jones's shit list alongside Rosie Duffield.

Letsgetreadytocrumble · 18/05/2021 22:49

I am guessing that TRAs won't make too much of this actually, because obviously they don't want to draw attention to the fact that some trans people do actually commit crimes.

I suppose 'male rapists should have their crimes recorded as being perpetrated by a woman if they want to and anything else is pure transphobia' isn't really a great look by anyone's standards!

GreyhoundG1rl · 18/05/2021 22:49

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

Fantastic!

She'll be next on Owen Jones's shit list alongside Rosie Duffield.

Hopefully it's about to get so long he'll be covered in the stuff Here's some to start you off, Owen, with my very best wishes 💩💩💩
TedImgoingmad · 18/05/2021 22:57

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

I am guessing that TRAs won't make too much of this actually, because obviously they don't want to draw attention to the fact that some trans people do actually commit crimes.

I suppose 'male rapists should have their crimes recorded as being perpetrated by a woman if they want to and anything else is pure transphobia' isn't really a great look by anyone's standards!

IIRC, TRAs want all trans prisoners released, irrespective of crime, because locking them up is apparently transphobic.
OP posts:
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 18/05/2021 23:00

In order to combat sexism, we need to count sex, and in order to combat discrimination against other groups, there is a need to record separate and additional data. The offending patterns of men and of women show the highest differential of all, so we need to monitor the sex of victims and of perpetrators of all crimes..... Data based only on self-identified gender does not give accurate data on which to build a violence against women and girls strategy, nor to effectively plan services that support all victims and target all perpetrators whatever their sex or however they identify.

That’s great from anyone, but from a Labour MP it’s heroic. She must be expecting the routine abuse and death threats, but I hope for once her colleagues will stand up for her.

NotTerfNorCis · 18/05/2021 23:01

A Labour MP? Fantastic!

Igmum · 18/05/2021 23:08

Excellent speech, brave woman, here's to many more

WelshDaffodil · 18/05/2021 23:13

Also my MP, well done Tonia. I understand she's an ex rugby player herself. After very nearly spoiling my ballot over Rebecca Evans MS's response to Merched Cymru (but we're a marginal seat so I didn't in the end) I had been wondering what Tonia's opinion was on gender related issues. I'm glad she has sensible opinion on the issue of crime recording at least.

An excellent MP has gone up further in my estimation.

Feelinghothothottoday · 18/05/2021 23:18

I’ve just liked her Facebook page.

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