Should MN have a Gender Identity (or similar) subsection?

[TheThermalStair]

I used to be a really active member of this board, for years. Similar with real life groups. Now there are very few discussions about most feminist issues, and tonnes and tonnes about trans/gender identity issues.

I FULLY UNDERSTAND why people are interested in talking about this, on all sides. But I miss discussions about other issues. To me having a feminist board that seems to be 90% gender chat isn't representative of the feminist issues that women face in the UK let alone in the rest of the world. The alternative would be to have a "non trans/gender identity related feminist chat board" but that feels pretty silly. Is it just me that feels this way?

bogged down in the intolerance of trans exclusionary bigots hiding under feminism. (Tebhof's

Thats not going to catch on...its a shit acronym

And it should be a U not O

@TheThermalStair

Haha thanks *@Babdoc* I expected posters to say this TBH (have been told the same by friends in real life) but while I understand the concerns it's hardly the ONLY issue going on for women and girls is it? So more like if the Titanic was hitting several smaller icebergs and everyone was just pointing at one?

Not really - it is more like no one being able to name what the big white cold looking things are in order to discuss whether there is problem or not. If you can't name it you can't support negotiating the problem - whether it is the iceberg on the east or the one on the west. And if you can't even define what the ship is?? Well you're really sunk.

As someone else said: start other threads. Most feminists are interested in the other stuff and would join in too.

I always wonder if I'm missing something when someone says that the FWR board isn't discussing what they want to discuss. If you have a particular feminist issue or question or subject you want to discuss then surely you...start a thread to initiate that discussion? That's what a discussion board is by it's very nature surely? It's quite demanding to insist that other people start threads on what you are interested in without putting in the effort yourself.

I've been involved in loads of discussions on FWR which aren't about trans rights. I learnt about the Make Spaces for Girls campaign which has really caught my interest and which I've discussed with a few people in real life. I'm watching a really sweet and interesting thread about poems by women which I've found really inspiring.

If you want to have a discussion about feminist issues, then start one.

And it should be a U not O

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

bogged down in the intolerance of trans exclusionary bigots hiding under feminism. (Tebhof's

Thats not going to catch on...its a shit acronym

Perhaps, you're right, time will tell I suppose. I still think a separate section would be beneficial for the women dying weekly at the metaphorical hands of your husbands, brother's and fathers.

I think you might be right. Two women in a week die violent deaths, overwhelmingly at the hands of people they know. Normally partners or ex partners from predominantly heterosexual relationships. Targeting mainly trans women in an effort to put a stop to this is most likely not too going to be as effective as some think. By all means criticise trans people but the real battle is with your husbands, your brother's and your sons. In my opinion, a separate gender identity section would ensure those seeking to progress the safety of women across the world weren't bogged down in the intolerance of trans exclusionary bigots hiding under feminism. (Tebhof's).

I post about the 2 women a week all the time. I named the most recent ones in a recent post. Not sure why you think we need a separate section for that.

And our husbands, sons and brothers are only that if they identify as that. If they say certain words, our battle is now with our wives, daughters and sisters.
Individual trans women are rarely discussed by name on here - it's largely policy and law that is trying to replace 'sex' with 'gender' (or the consequences of policies already doing this).

And we are often trying to support trans men or at least get people to consider them in their arguments. Don't they matter? Trans men may need single-sex spaces when trans women request single-gender spaces (e.g. prisons). This is still a question relating to biological female sex even if it butts up against gender identity - it's not just 'trans' vs 'non-trans' people.

I agree that male violence is a huge problem and that 2 women a week are killed by husbands/partners is horrific

However, whenever women start to protest about male violence the following happens

1. We’re immediately told that TW suffer from more violence than women
2. As happened with the Sarah everard protest, women were told that they had to include TW in their campaign against male violence ie include people of the sex class responsible for violence against women

It is utterly maddening

I wanted to show support to the OP and anyone else lurking who feels the same. Because you will either recognise what I've said and go yup, that does happen (and literally two posts after I said the MRAs are still here using GC to try and convince feminists that Peterson is great someone popped up saying they like him!)

I don't understand this, what do you think feminism is, some sort of list of things people can and can't like, or think?

I don't like Steven Pinker, I find Peterson interesting in some things, I do rather like Camille Paglia though I disagree with her views in many areas, I think Margaret Atwood writes mentally stultifying novels.

But what does any of that have to do with feminism?

Perhaps, you're right, time will tell I suppose. I still think a separate section would be beneficial for the women dying weekly at the metaphorical hands of your husbands, brother's and fathers

Time will tell its still a shit acronym

BUT i wouldnt stand in the way of a separate section if people wanted one...whether i thought it was a good idea or not

And actually i agree with theeyeballs

Check out some of those ‘trans hating’ threads....see who brings up trans first

By all means criticise trans people but the real battle is with your husbands, your brother's and your sons

Who is 'criticising trans people'? We feminists are concerned here with the removal of the word 'woman' from social discourse, with the inclusion of the opposite sex in the category 'woman'.

This threatens to render all other issues pertaining to women impossible to describe, discuss or challenge. We already, on hearing about a 'female' criminal, ask what sex they actually are. The 'gender pay gap' could magically disappear, given enough males who have never had to have a career break to mother children. Lesbians already are losing their spaces and groups absent of males. Groups set up to advance women in politics contain transwomen - the 'woman's prize' shortlisted a transwoman. And that's before we even get to the emerging scandal that is the 'transing' of children without evidence or proper care.

Lastly, why presume that 'husbands, brothers and sons' are not trans? That's a bit of an odd assumption, especially given the prominence of threads that are here specifically to support 'trans widows', and that many posters have children who identify as trans.

And its fucking ours

How the fuck is it ‘your husbands, brothers and fathers’

Why isn’t it ‘OUR husbands brothers and fathers’

Trans men are very important in the debate. However, as many Trans Critical Feminists are unwilling to engage them as the men they are and many find being infantilized insulting. There are bad trans people of course there are but, violence against women predominantly happens at home. A separate section would, in my opinion ensure your metaphorical brotbers, husbands and fathers don't get a free ticket.

separate section would, in my opinion ensure your metaphorical brotbers, husbands and fathers don't get a free ticket

OUR

but, violence against women predominantly happens at home

Not for me it hasn't. It has always been outside the home. By strangers.

Aye, indeed, Rufus. It's up to us to jolly well sort out male violence. How silly we are not fixing it right this very minute!

Trans Critical Feminists

Nice change of terms....i see what you did there

engage them as the men they are and many find being infantilized insulting

Jesus christ it gets worse

Didn’t think that was possible

What the fuck is a Trans Critical Feminist? Never ever met one one nor heard of one!

@BrizzleGirl

What the fuck is a Trans Critical Feminist? Never ever met one one nor heard of one!

Steph made it up

@YetAnotherSpartacus

There are plenty of threads on the front page of FWR that are not about gender identity. There are threads about marriage, women in China, childbirth and unfair judicial treatment of a woman (just for starters).

If you want to see other topics then start some different threads.

I started one of those threads, but thanks for the encouragement

Ahh, it makes sense now Steph. Having looked through your previous posts it seems that you are a transwoman. And you support moving women's gender critical talk to a different place as you would like to use this space to talk about different things.

Oh I see the terminology has suddenly changed from ‘gender critical’ to ‘trans critical’

Nice try!!