Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Should MN have a Gender Identity (or similar) subsection?

502 replies

TheThermalStair · 16/05/2021 14:12

I used to be a really active member of this board, for years. Similar with real life groups. Now there are very few discussions about most feminist issues, and tonnes and tonnes about trans/gender identity issues.

I FULLY UNDERSTAND why people are interested in talking about this, on all sides. But I miss discussions about other issues. To me having a feminist board that seems to be 90% gender chat isn't representative of the feminist issues that women face in the UK let alone in the rest of the world. The alternative would be to have a "non trans/gender identity related feminist chat board" but that feels pretty silly. Is it just me that feels this way?

OP posts:
EmpressWitchDoesntBurn · 17/05/2021 09:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ArabellaScott · 17/05/2021 09:38

I've been a feminist since the 80s. I've seen girl power, FGM, Reclaim the Streets, Fifty Shades of Grey, etc as feminist issues.

The threat to our sex based rights at the moment does take up time and headspace that we also need to spend on other issues, yes.

So why on earth would seasoned feminists with plenty of awareness and experience in issues like VAWG, FGM, politics, healthcare, intersectionality, etc, suddenly be so consumed with needing to discuss this new 'genderism'? Do you think perhaps it's because they all see the risks involved?

Or that women fighting on issues like FGM are attacked for being 'trans exclusive'? Or told that they are bigots to mention women being raped in prison? Women who have been involved in these issues on the coal face, for years, are now being told their views are beyond the pale because they're not including males.

That is the crux of it.

It wasn't feminists that brought 'gender' into the debate, it was those who insisted that feminists include males, and those who made rape threats, death threats, bomb threats, who got women fired, cancelled, doxxed, who insisted there was 'no debate', who worked on the advice of Dentons, who used the liberal funding of the government, the Scottish government, to place transwomen in strategic places like women's prisons, heading rape crisis centres, in movements like the 50:50 campaign, in emotive documentaries, etc.

It wasn't feminists that insisted males and transwomen be centred, considered above all others.

Yet its feminists who are the ones who get it in the neck for talking about it.

It's almost like misogyny has found a hyper-effective way of silencing women and rendering feminism toothless. Amazing.

Tibtom · 17/05/2021 10:06

I agree ArabellaScott although you do not need to say 'males and transwomen' as 'males' also covers transwomen.

Menoismymate · 17/05/2021 10:14

Agree, it's put me off coming near the feminist boards for the most part.

Erikrie · 17/05/2021 10:15

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2021 10:17

Agree, it's put me off coming near the feminist boards for the most part.

Why not simply post on what you are interested in, and ignore the threads/posts that you aren't interested in?

EndoplasmicReticulum · 17/05/2021 10:23

I don't think we need to split, segregate or silence this board.
Just that, really.

Menoismymate · 17/05/2021 10:38

@Erikrie

'Menoismymate new poster or did you decide to name change for this one confused ??

What??

Menoismymate · 17/05/2021 10:47

oh I get it @Erikrie

I never understand why people want to know if someone is a new poster or not. Seems weird to me.
I frequently change my user name as a matter of course, but have been on MN for over 10 years. And did so earlier today. Though what that's got to do with anything I'm not sure.

Fernlake · 17/05/2021 11:53

@TheThermalStair

I must confess, reading your opening post made my heart pump a little faster. Because I can see me, and many women here, in you. And the frustration elevates my heart rate.

I can distinctly remember when the tone of this board changed. About five or six years ago.

There was a fair amount of disagreement about how important the issue of gender ideology was. At the time, no one could really conceive that it would result in rapists in female prisons. Despite the fact that some women on here put that forward as a possibility. A lot of people genuinely thought it wouldn't actually be allowed to happen. That it was just too extreme, too unlikely, too awful. The term fear mongering was used.

Now, not only has it happened, but incarcerated women are being casually used to satisfy the need of extremely high risk male sex offenders to 'associate with women', as long as those male prisoners say they're not male.

Likewise, the issue was discussed regarding the possibility of company boards, management, even Parliament being split into men and transwomen.

I still find this possibility almost impossible to think of. But it is happening. elsewhere in the world.

So these two examples, could, conceivably, be relegated to things that (currently) are not affecting many women. Despite them being despicable displays of misogyny. Which, I think, is perhaps the way you regard gender ideology.

And this is also where the board was, pretty much, four or five years ago. The potential of what could happen, but many people thought it wouldn't, or wouldn't be allowed.

However, what has happened, is that more and more women are finding the issue of gender ideology is having an actual impact on them. That it is being allowed. In their day-to-day lives. At work, in their peer groups and to a very worrying degree, in schools.

What was deemed an unlikely potential, has now become a very real issue, on a daily basis. For very many women and very many parents.

The aspect of children and teens, is particularly concerning. The schism between what many have been taught, and what is real, is a genuine issue that is impacting numerous families.

Women, their rights, and their political representation is facing a massive backlash. And children, in many schools, are being taught to support it.

So, like a previous poster, I don't see this as a separate issue, I see this as the collective mobilisation of a patriarchal society, to once and for all dismantle feminism.

Not as a conspiracy, with a checklist of rights to be taken down, but as a natural extension of the sexism and misogyny that we all know exists.

There are now numerous ways to, stop women talking, attack them when they are vulnerable, call them names, relieve them of their privacy and safety, strip them of power, divide them from each other, stop them centering their rights and alienate them from their children - and, the icing on the cake is, it's all in the name of progression.

The reason this board has changed, is because this issue is affecting all women. One at a time. And they are coming here to find support.

If that's not feminism and women's rights, I don't know what is.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2021 12:33

That's a great post, Fern.

Gumbomambo · 17/05/2021 12:38

@Fernlake. Fucking awesome awesome post.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 17/05/2021 12:43

*The reason this board has changed, is because this issue is affecting all women. One at a time. And they are coming here to find support.

If that's not feminism and women's rights, I don't know what is.*

Amen Fern.

The moderators would be better off playing Whack-A-Mole.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 17/05/2021 12:43

Bang on Fern!! 2.5 years ago I was in the ‘be kind/they’re clearly exaggerating’ camp because I just couldn’t envisage anyone would be mad enough to put an intact rapist in a woman’s prison or say that a Parliament 50%men 50% TW would be inclusive of women or that every list of inspiring women on international women’s day would include men

Terranean · 17/05/2021 13:00

What @Fernlake said 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

CorvusPurpureus · 17/05/2021 13:05

@Fernlake 👍 ☝️exactly that. Brava.

ChattyLion · 17/05/2021 13:08

Absolutely excellent post Fernlake thank you

334bu · 17/05/2021 13:13

Just an example of how the fight for equal participation for women in the political arena is being put back by gender ideology and men ruthlessly exploiting it.

Should MN have a Gender Identity (or similar) subsection?
Should MN have a Gender Identity (or similar) subsection?
stonecat · 17/05/2021 13:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

EmpressWitchDoesntBurn · 17/05/2021 13:14

Brilliant post, Fernlake.

I was in the ‘be kind’ camp until I learned what was going on from FWR.

MiladyBerserko · 17/05/2021 13:21

Really? Another attempt to collalle women off into an area where they can't be heard. This is already the case with FWR, where the rules are stricter than the rest of the boards.

I very much doubt this proposal has any good intentions, and is simply another attempt to shut women up.

MiladyBerserko · 17/05/2021 13:22

Corral

ifIwerenotanandroid · 17/05/2021 13:25

ArabellaScott & Fernlake: brilliant & true, many thanks for what you've said.

(I'd also say that over the weekend this board was full of threads which were nothing to do with gender issues; & persuing the list, I was thinking that this gave the lie to those who complain.)

Waitwhat23 · 17/05/2021 13:26

Well said @fernlake. What's happening is so outlandish that no-one who isn't following the debate believes that it's true.

You hear things like 'Of course no-one would put a rapist in a women's prison! Don't be so ridiculous/hysterical/over the top!'

'Of course the word woman isn't being erased! What ridiculous hyperbole!'

And what really rankles is when people do get it and say things like 'well why aren't feminists/women doing something about it?'

I like the mix of conversations on this board, with the general conversations about feminist issues (as mentioned in my previous post) and the discussions which arise around this debate as I believe it is important.

Helleofabore · 17/05/2021 13:30

I very much doubt this proposal has any good intentions, and is simply another attempt to shut women up.

It seems so. And of course, to provide others the opportunity to chime in and shame women discussing their needs. Because, we are not doing the right kind of feminism.... despite this not being a hive mind and people not belonging to any stream of feminism or being restricted to discussing any issue from a particular angle.

Swipe left for the next trending thread