GRA Reform, Legal Self Declaration, has no effect on access to spaces

[ool0n]

I'm wondering given the recent convincing defeat of gender critical ideology in the high court vs EHRC - if the Mumsnet gender critical people finally accept the fact that having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces?

People on the other side of the debate like myself have been explaining to GC people on Twitter for years that having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces so their objection to GRA reform is/was unfounded. I/we based this on -

1. English government legal analysis that stated having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces
2. Scottish government legal analysis ... ditto ...
3. The EA 2010 and GA 2004 text
4. The practical impossibility that a BC (Not an ID document) could be of any use in deciding access

now we have

1. Gender critical crowdfunded challenge to EHRC guidance that says having a GRC has no effect on access to spaces. Comprehensively lost, not even passed the very low bar to even be considered for a Judicial Review.

Given this is the case will gender critical people be reevaluating their assertion "Self ID", as in GRA Reform, must be opposed as it effects access to spaces? Trans people have always been able to "Self ID", in the colloquial sense, into men's and women's spaces. So making it easier for trans people to change their birth certificates only helps them, has no effect on GC feminists, and/or cisgender women and spaces.

(I also wonder if there'll be any introspection as to why an obviously incorrect interpretation of the law was able to become so prevalent in gender critical circles. Maybe listen to groups outside of GC circles a bit more?)

Ah, I see you mean Performative Emphasising. Of course, I'm not emphasising if I don't make a big show and tell of it.

spoonrider showing that the concept of empathy is so alien to them that they misread it.

No! Again you are misunderstanding.

By choice, perhaps!

Women! You're womening wrong. This is your last warning!

smellycats for you, most of us women are here because we care.

@Sophoclesthefox

If I’m thinking about the right poster, and curious does what I think she does for a living, I am pmsl 🤣

I am who you are thinking of 😊

Always beware of MN threads which are used to gather screenshots to put on twitter.

Oh, and I was womansplaining

Usually called applying the patience of a dozen saints and explaining a simple concept repeatedly, searching for the way the listener can begin to understand a complex topic.

Sometimes men call it nagging. Students call it simplifying and edifying.

I called it the day job for a couple of decades.

@smellycats

And women learn through their lived experience that male people who violate their boundaries and don't accept "no" are doing it because they enjoy feeling powerful that way. They enjoy frightening women.

The irony of all this is I didn't ever have an issue with transgender women using women's toilets etc etc. And I have noticed transgender women in women's toilets and haven't ever been concerned.

But the argument that a fully physically intact man, with a beard etc, is actually a woman and has the right to be in women's spaces, has had an impact on my own understanding of what transgender is.

And where I previously did not think "transgender" represented a threat to women's safety, I now, unfortunately, do. A lot of this perception derives from the way the identity politics totally excludes the reality that women are not safe, and makes zero attempt to find a way forward that has woman's safety at its core.

I feel this shift in me is not only damaging to me, but also to transgender women who were previously peacefully living their lives.

I think a lot of women have been through a similar process, @smellycats. From live and let live, empathising with transwomen who feel vulnerable in men's spaces, to being told "suck my girl dick" and "TWAW YES ALL OF THEM YOU MAY NOT QUESTION, NO DEBATE, PEOPLE CAN BE BORN IN THE WRONG BODY AND YOU'RE A BIGOT IF YOU QUESTION THIS" and then reluctantly, disbelieving at first, but sensing the misogyny and threat and realising this is about dismantling the rights of women and girls. I can't believe it's happened, but it has.

@nauticant

Always beware of MN threads which are used to gather screenshots to put on twitter.

Occasionally I want to type without self censoring. I just want some people to realise the harm they are doing, to women AND to those they claim to represent.

The post wasn't directed at you CuriousaboutSamphire, it was just a public service announcement for anyone to note if they wanted to.

Sunlight

I agree & wondered about this one. Did you see what MN got called by ONE poster on twitter yesterday? If memory serves, it was T*net (in full), Scumsnet & SepticTankNet. Possibly also Nuttersnet, but that might be an older one. MN was also described as hate group. So tedious.

Is anyone posting edits from this one, then?

Yeah, dead/alive is a continuous spectrum between two binary states and DEPENDS ON CONTEXT

So if an alive person identifies as dead should their legal status be changed, given that it's a "spectrum"? Or does objective reality have any kind of role to play?

Sunset, really?

Yes, really.

@Sophoclesthefox

Sunset, really?

Yes. Oolon is another of their aliases.

Crikey.

christ almighty. yes, fine. alive people can identify as dead. whatever.

Wow, you're very good at biting bullets, I'll give you that!

Do you think that the right to self-identify as dead might create any problems for the rest of society that outweigh the undoubtedly critically important freedom to self-identify on legal documents?

Well that explains things.

Can dead people identify as alive?

And for the record, yes, I do think there is an issue with many trans women not understanding cis women experiences. Not going through the same thing in teenage years does give you a very different view on life. I've never claimed I had the same upbringing as a cis woman. I've benefitted from extra privelige that I had. I didn't think about sexual assault in the same way until I transitioned at 17 (and experienced what men are like) - I simply never got taught that. Why would I? I was a boy. I've never (and never will) worry about pregnancy, or have to go through monthly PMS (I see what my wife has and wouldn't ever want it).

Thank you for this. But to me, you're saying things that might earn you a "choke on my cock" comment from some transgender women.

If a woman said any of this, they'd certainly be flooded with suck dick abuse and labelled transphobic.

If you understand all this now, why aren't you more alarmed for women?

@nauticant

The post wasn't directed at you CuriousaboutSamphire, it was just a public service announcement for anyone to note if they wanted to.

Sorry, I didn't take it as being directed at me, honest. I might be reaching the end of a saint's worth of patience 😊