Wipeout for Labour in Hartlepool

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

Given the landslide in Hartlepool, will anything make Labour think again about the way in which they've alienated their core voters (including women)?

@Tibtom

but I don’t get why people think Tories are a good option on women’s rights.

It is a case of 'the Torys may destroy women's rights' compares to 'Labour/Lib Dems/Greens definitely will destroy women's rights and laugh and call us bigots whilst doing so'

Agree Timtom that there are too many obnoxious Labour activists, probably many of them young and privileged, who act with complete contempt towards those who don't agree with them. I hate that the leadership does nothing against their bullying.

But the last Labour Party manifesto did pledge to maintain sex-based rights.

And as I said, maintaining the NHS and not undermining the law courts may be more important than activist ideology.

@serendipitea

It would be really good to know how much the lack of support for single-sex spaces and rights affected voter decisions beyong the FWR / GC twitter bubble.

Media talks only about the Brexit effect.

I'm listening to the Radio 5 phone in election post-mortem and the presenter, Nicky Campbell, just joked that he misheard a speaker as saying 'gender' adding, and we're not going to go there (ho ho). The BBC clearly regard it as way too hot to handle - I heard a veteran male Radio 5 teatime slot presenter saying something similar a year ago.

It’s like Labour moved to London and had a 5 year conference on what they wanted people to think and just worked off that. (The heartlands used to be Hull. Now it’s Islington. In an organic pub.)
I think you've summed it up well here. They are spending too much time listening to a particulqr group of 20-somethings with narrow life experiences who want to pat themselves on the back for 'raising awareness' on Twitter, and not enough time realising that the electorate want more than identity politics and telling off.

Many people I know voted Labour to try and prevent a Tory win, and it didn't work. There's a lot of people who would vote for a centre left party that sticks up for workers, families and public services. Labour aren't listening though.

Unfortunately in the last few years the Overton window in the UK has also shifted to the right, so even policies that would have been distinctly centre ground are viewed as radically left, and Tory cronyism is dismissed as Boris just doing his best.

I held my nose and voted Labour. For years I always floated between them, Lib Dems and Greens but can't see that happening ever again. I shuddered seeing the LD logo on the ballot, and it was a relief to see no Greens standing. How has it come to this?

If Starmer goes I can't see who would take his place that wouldn't make me abandon Labour for good too. That he didn't cave over the appalling trans pledge business is practically the only hope I'm holding out at this point.

It is a case of 'the Torys may destroy women's rights' compares to 'Labour/Lib Dems/Greens definitely will destroy women's rights and laugh and call us bigots whilst doing so

This. The Tories only got onboard the trans train because they wanted a progressive issue to jump onto to allay the 'nasty party' thing and they thought it would be an easy win. They really dont care that much either way

as opposed to every other political party who proactively want to get rid of single sex spaces and happily indulge ageism in the process by dismissing any woman who raises an objection as old and out of touch and a Karen.

On Radio 5, they've just been laughing about Lloyd Russell-Moyle being first out of the traps to criticise Starmer and saying Labour needs to go more in the Moyle* direction, which the commentators are saying will delight the Tories.

*I won't call this 'further Left' because his brand of beardy wokebro misogyny is the opposite.

@IvyTwines2

On Radio 5, they've just been laughing about Lloyd Russell-Moyle being first out of the traps to criticise Starmer and saying Labour needs to go more in the Moyle* direction, which the commentators are saying will delight the Tories.

*I won't call this 'further Left' because his brand of beardy wokebro misogyny is the opposite.

It’ll be like kicking a puppy soon.

Bloody Labour!

But the last Labour Party manifesto did pledge to maintain sex-based rights.

My problem is, I genuinely don't know what they mean by this, I suspect they mean 'yes we will keep sex based rights, but men can identify into them'.

@PronounssheRa

But the last Labour Party manifesto did pledge to maintain sex-based rights.

My problem is, I genuinely don't know what they mean by this, I suspect they mean 'yes we will keep sex based rights, but men can identify into them'.

exactly! as labour thing anyone is a woman who says they are, ive no confidence that they mean it at all

Even my woke dcs have had enough of the wokeness. The cancelling/pronouns malarkey has turned even them off.

@IrmaFayLear

Even my woke dcs have had enough of the wokeness. The cancelling/pronouns malarkey has turned even them off.

I really hope this is green shoots. I was a Labour member until recently but I can't see them being anywhere near power until they get a level head and bring the adults back into the room. At the moment you feel the adults have been confused and blindsided by social media and the historically unprecedented amplification it has given to noisy young activists. A lot of students behave like Rik in the Young Ones or Viz' Student Grant, but previous generations of politicians were wise enough to recognise and remember that this was just a phase of growing up. They didn't hand the reins of power to them.

This. The Tories only got onboard the trans train because they wanted a progressive issue to jump onto to allay the 'nasty party'
thing and they thought it would be an easy win. They really dont
care that much either way

I wish this was true, but watching the Women & Equalities Committee hearings the Tory MPs there seemed completely signed up to the ideology.

And look at the way the government fought tooth and nail to keep "mother/woman" out of that Ministerial Maternity Bill. Why?

@serendipitea

It would be really good to know how much the lack of support for single-sex spaces and rights affected voter decisions beyong the FWR / GC twitter bubble.

Media talks only about the Brexit effect.

I was reading the Guardian politics live blog earlier, with comments on Newest First. Over and over again, comments appeared saying wokeism was the problem with Labour, and several singled out the focus on trans or other minority rights above all else, which is also patronising to those being ‘helped’. Every time the page refreshed, those comments had been zapped. “This comment was removed by a moderator because it did not meet community standards” etc.

People aren’t even allowed to discuss what’s staring them in the face.

Labour is doomed if it doesn’t take a long hard look at itself now. It’s not like they even walk the walk to match their woke talk. Which party has had female leaders and has the most diverse front bench? The Tories. Meanwhile, Labour just bickers about which dudebro to anoint next. As a lifelong leftie, I could not feel more let down.

't Steve Reed, the party's shadow secretary for communities and local government, said the results showed Labour needed to "rebuild the shattered trust" of the nation.'

No shit. Maybe try asking people why they've not voted Labour, instead of sneering at them, calling them bigots, etc? Revolutionary, I know, but insulting the electorate isn't really going so well as a strategy, as far as I can see.

I was reading the Guardian politics live blog earlier, with comments on Newest First. Over and over again, comments appeared saying wokeism was the problem with Labour, and several singled out the focus on trans or other minority rights above all else, which is also patronising to those being ‘helped’. Every time the page refreshed, those comments had been zapped. “This comment was removed by a moderator because it did not meet community standards” etc.

People aren’t even allowed to discuss what’s staring them in the face.

Well, I suppose nobody will ever know why the left is failing, then.

Interesting that the Tories brought in self ID, but are now benefiting from Labour's stance on the issue.

Jill Mortimer's win in Hartlepool means that 9 of the last 10 by-election winners (and all after Feb 2017) have been women

Interesting random observation I've just seen.

whatever has happened, the talk on here this week was all about how to spoil ballot papers.

keep doing that and nothing will ever change.

@murbblurb

whatever has happened, the talk on here this week was all about how to spoil ballot papers.

keep doing that and nothing will ever change.

The discussion was not 'how to' but 'should you/is it worthwhile'

@murbblurb

whatever has happened, the talk on here this week was all about how to spoil ballot papers.

keep doing that and nothing will ever change.

That saying attributed to Einstein, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

When you aren't even allowed to discuss, in most self-styled 'Left-leaning' circles, the issues that are alienating voters, what hope is there right now? In my field, just following JKR on Twitter and, on Facebook, condemning the death and rape threats against her, lost me Labour activist 'friends'. I haven't even dared to tweet or like anything obviously 'GC' - I seriously think it would affect my employment, in the current climate. That's fucking Orwellian but here we are.

Well things certainly seem to have changed in Hartlepool, and for Clay Cross council from what I've just been reading. In fact it sounds as if a lot of Labour voters there have gone further than spoiling their ballots - but carry on scolding Mumsnetters if it makes you feel better.

I have just been looking at some tweets from Labour folk and their response has been to call the voters thick, racist/xenophobic, uneducated etc. Not one seemed to consider that perhaps it was a Labour Party issue at all.

If I am reading correctly, only 42% of voters turned out and half voted Tory. Where are the other 58% of voters? Perhaps, like me, they couldn't face voting for Labour anymore but couldn't bring themselves to vote Tory and sat at home in silent fury for not having a party to vote for in the history of their adult lives.

*People aren’t even allowed to discuss what’s staring them in the face.
*
The left in the uk has outsourced its thinking on cultural matters to the US and as a result is an increasing irrelevance to key voters in the UK. Plus it's hard to win hearts and minds if you've convinced yourself those voters are loathsome because you've... (see above) All these activists who waste their time on various witch burnings and cause celebres all the while ignoring the needs of people out in the constituencies because their heads are so far up their own behinds. I'm embarrassed for Labour.

For those that really don't get what is going on can I recommend ‘Despised: Why the Modern Left Loathes the Working Class’ by Paul Embery.

Mind currently boggling at some of the leftist types on social media who think the answer to swathes of voters backing the Conservative party is a return to Corbynism. Side eyes Momentum.

Didn't know about the brexit thing; that sounds like the main reason why.

The green candidate is v pro women though, and great, if anyone there wishes to vote for her in the future.

I don't know much about the Tory who got in, but being a woman does make me feel better about it.