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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo

513 replies

Biscuitsanddoombar · 05/05/2021 20:59

Not a surprise and hopefully it’ll open some eyes about the utter ridiculousness of allowing someone who is male to compete against women in weightlifting

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/05/trans-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-set-to-make-history-at-tokyo-olympics

OP posts:
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Ekofisk · 22/06/2021 22:54

Kyle Langford’s Tweet was a corker.

Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo
Ekofisk · 22/06/2021 22:58

And add Chris Tomlinson to the list too.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 22/06/2021 23:08

I think the next webinar Baroness Nicholson is holding is on sports. I assume Tanni Grey Thompson will be speaking, which will be worth listening to.

Baroness Grey Thompson was born with a disability. I would be interested to hear what she thinks about the concept of being "born in the wrong body" and as a paralympian I expect she also has some worthwhile insights into fairness in sport.

User27aw · 22/06/2021 23:29

Here is Chris Tomlinson's tweet. Former GB Olympic long jumper

Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo
littlbrowndog · 22/06/2021 23:31

Our second fastest marathon runner I think coming out yay👏👏🙌🏽🙌🏽

Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo
OvaHere · 22/06/2021 23:33

So happy to see all these elite sports people speaking up. Sharron, Martina and Daley have been very brave leading the way, the first two shouldering much of the flak for a long time.

littlbrowndog · 22/06/2021 23:35

And here’s Canada the brave

Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo
Appalonia · 22/06/2021 23:38

@IsabelleSE19

Not an athlete, but high-profile actor Don Cheadle has just quote tweeted Ross Turner's Times column and asked 'for argument's sake' what happens if TW end up dominating women's sport. Mostly irritating replies so far but will see how it develops.
That's so interesting, as Don was very TWAW a while ago. Think for men, sport is the one thing they just can't deny is unfair, no matter how woke they consider themselves to be!
Appalonia · 22/06/2021 23:43

Please disregard my last post, I wrote it before reading all the later posts about him! Seems like he hasn't changed his stance at all...Blush

IsabelleSE19 · 22/06/2021 23:48

Don't worry Appalonia - it's so disappointing. From the wording of his first tweet I really thought he must be joining the dots, but nope!

Ekofisk · 22/06/2021 23:50

Don is still TWAW by the looks:

"woke"! i just won right-wing talking points bingo! to be clear; i'm more interested in the weight and gravity of a trans athlete competing on the world stage than i am in people on the world stage defying gravity by lifting weight. wrong? you luke silly right now ...

Star555 · 23/06/2021 04:39

Please sign this petition to end this madness!
www.change.org/p/international-olympic-committee-suspend-the-international-olympic-committee-s-transgender-policy
Let's make our voices heard by the International Olympic Committee.

BettyFilous · 23/06/2021 06:05

@Signalbox

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread but just to say it's nice to see a few athletes speaking up.

Tessa Sanderson and Andy Turner.

And this response to a tweet by Alison Sydor is a classic...

Ah, it gladdens my heart to see a snarky Twitter muppet so comprehensively owned by one of the grown ups. 🤣 Thank you for posting that image.
Sophoclesthefox · 23/06/2021 06:43

@littlbrowndog

And here’s Canada the brave
I’m completely unsurprised to see this ludicrous non binary policy. It’s been obvious that the move has been in that direction. I said a couple of years ago that this would be the next “frontier for trans rights in sport”, and was told I was a conspiracy theorist.

Ha.

So, yep, the door is pretty much open for any male who fancies to stroll in to women’s sport. Thanks a bunch, IOC.

Signed the petition, thanks for sharing.

It’s fantastic to see some sporting greats speaking out, I hope that the more it happens, the more people feel empowered to do the same

Helleofabore · 23/06/2021 07:12

That NB policy for Ringette, Canada is alarming in the direction it is taking.

It is so good to see some Olympians speaking up now. And even better that they state why they were silent previously - fear. Until people realise the immense cost that so many brave people have paid by speaking up to get us this far, I think people will still be wondering why it has just blown up now.

Like the ignoramuses who look around and ask snidely ‘where are all the ‘feminists’ talking about the conflicts’ that you occasionally see on twitter.

Helleofabore · 23/06/2021 07:22

@OwningAllMyMistakes

Well clearly that countries Olympic selection committee chose Laurel for that position on the team & if LH hadn’t been selected do you think she would be bleating constantly about it? Let’s just see what happens without being vicious.
No thanks. Waiting to see what happens will hardly put things right for Nini in Tonga. And waiting to see what happens will not stop the harm being done already to women and girls and their sports.

What do you honestly think ‘wait and see’ will do? We already know that a 43 year old, late transitioned male with a huge body advantage has taken the place of a 21 year old woman. Her chance of sponsorship is now significantly diminished.

As a male weighlifter of that age, it is not only those physical benefits, but they have had the benefit of coaching and competitive experience as a male (for much longer than most of the female competitors). And never any menstrual cycle issues to deal with. Never any pregnancy issues.

So what are we waiting for exactly?

bellinisurge · 23/06/2021 07:36

If you are on Twitter compare and contrast the responses that Tessa Sanderson CBE is getting twitter.com/tessasanderson/status/1407407687306985473?s=21

to the responses Andy Turner is getting

twitter.com/andyturner110h/status/1407072204764897281?s=21

BettyFilous · 23/06/2021 07:53

The Laurel Hubbard case was mentioned in a trail for tonight’s Moral Maze on R4 at 8pm, which is going to be discussing transwomen in women’s sport.

ThirdThoughts · 23/06/2021 08:01

There was an interesting documentary I caught on the BBC recently about Paralympic sport and problems with the classification system that separates disabled athletes by conditions/equivalent ability and how hard it is to keep it fair. "The Unfair Games"

At first I had an exposé saying that one type of decision was wrong but it would then talk to the supposed beneficiaries of that decision and you'd see it had wrecked their sporting careers too.

Seeing how even small changes to a category or to an individual's classification could deeply affect the fairness of a race and the knock on effect to people's careers, funding etc.

It's not about trans sport, but it does raise similar issues about level playing fields and how changes like this are exploitable and the pressures and prestige around countries trying to get more medals. And how if a classification is widened to allow more able people into it then it quickly disadvantages the people the classification was originally for.

I think if you have enough trans people interested in elite level sport you could try and create a classification system to allow inclusion and fair competition, but it would have to account for biology and wouldn't be males competing against females.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 23/06/2021 08:15

A woman who took any testosterone supplement, even if it didn't actually raise her levels, would be banned for cheating if caught.

Also, her body hasn’t got the advantages of having developed through male puberty.

If records get set that women are unable to match, women are likely to get hurt trying to beat it and put under pressure to dope in order to remain competitive. Look at Elena Muchina - a world class Olympic gymnast who was pressured by her coach to perform a Salto tumble from men's gymnastics and ended up a quadriplegic.

So many tragedies waiting to happen to women.

bellinisurge · 23/06/2021 08:18

Thanks, Betty. I'll listen on catch up

ASpoonfulofDust · 23/06/2021 08:39

So why not rename all men's categories 'open' and let everyone who isn't a born-and-still-identifying-as-woman battle it out over there?

Let them figure out testosterone levels and fairness. Not our circus.

Helleofabore · 23/06/2021 08:44

It has been suggested aspoonfulofdust by quite a number of industry professionals.

It would seem the way forward in many sports that are non-contact sports. Some already are of course.

Helleofabore · 23/06/2021 08:50

If records get set that women are unable to match, women are likely to get hurt trying to beat it and put under pressure to dope in order to remain competitive. Look at Elena Muchina - a world class Olympic gymnast who was pressured by her coach to perform a Salto tumble from men's gymnastics and ended up a quadriplegic.

I always come back to this video. It is really clear that males simply have advantages in gymnastics that are undeniable and come from skeleton and muscle development (those things untouched by reduction of 't' it seems).

Tesla73 · 23/06/2021 09:18

very good article here from Debbie Hayton

thecritic.co.uk/a-gendered-soul/