Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

[TinselAngel]

Welcome to thread 5. A virtual prize for anyone who can guess the geeky sci fi reference in the thread title.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

In four years we have gone from starting the first thread, to launching a website, to be invited to give evidence to a government inquiry, which is pretty spectacular when you think about it.

Thanks to all the women who have told their stories and particularly to those who have stuck around to help others. Thanks also to @socialworker222 who remains nice cop, to my stern cop.

Do say hello to start the thread off!

No. We attend a Christian church. He has no current role other than weekly attendance for a service.

So he's being called, not just to the ministry, but to be a vicar who pretends to be a woman and nobody is allowed to challenge him? Does he have the necessary qualifications for vicaring? That seems very convenient.

(1) Financial situation? I don't think that vicars in the CofE are at all well paid. I think I read that, apart from the accommodation, they sort of pay to be a vicar and need a pension or other income.
(2) I totally agree with @TinselAngel

Sorry Allsteamedup, I realise I'm not really answering your question as to what's going on, but it sounds like he's decided he'd like an opportunity to climb the ranks from Secret Crossdresser to Stunning and Brave.

That he's trying to make out that God wants him to do it is a new one even on me.

Surely the church don't just accept any randomer? You must need some qualifications? Unless he's planning on being some kind of lay minister?

WRT not liking gay men, my understanding is that this was quite common at one time amongst old fashioned cross dressers, indeed I understand the Beaumont Society originally only accepted straight men as members

I remember when my ex started to talk contemptuously about "part timers", so this is probably the direction his transvestites group has gone in.

This must all be a horrible shock

All I can find is he should have approached our vicar, then been forwarded on recommendation. He has gone directly to the woman (vicar) running an LGBTQ+ service miles away. I do not understand how this is possible. Yes, I hope there is screening! Looking at the internet it looks as if accepting LGBTQ is going to be a thing for all parishes. Being tried out in this Open Table thing. I am recovering from a cancer op. Don't need this. We are in our seventies.

You poor thing 💐

How well do you know your vicar? Well enough to talk to about it?

We have something called Shared .Ministry ATM. The vicar who was present when my husband got this Holy Spirit intervention 3 weeks ago could be accessed. Bearing in mind the current Church in Wales projection of LGBTQ+ I would not expect much of a conversation once it was realised I am non supportive. The current climate seems to be that LGBTQ+ has the ascendancy and any alternative opinion invites invective. I am trying to live past Thursday and my partner's conversation with this person. Once I am recovered a change of residence might be a good idea!
An aside. My partner has history of forcing a cd crisis, particularly around invitations eg wedding, christenings, events for family when my concentration was elsewhere. There is a pattern
Second aside. Whilst there is plenty online about accepting LGBTQ+ the advertised services are separate from congregations. There seems to be a lot of charitable inclusive talk but does anyone involved actually have experience of gay or tg lifestyle?
I have survived two non transitions and a lot more besides. I never thought things could get any worse. I foolishly felt safe in church!

I suppose really the whole church thing is a bit of a distraction from the main point which is that he's escalating, and do you feel able to support that escalation, or is it time to say "thus far and no further"?

I can't imagine many women would want to sit in church, surrounded by their neighbours, while their husband leads prayers as a lay vicaress.

@Allsteamedup I agree with @TinselAngel He's just trying to push boundaries. How much far before you say "No further"?
Thirty years of this, good God! You have the patience of a saint.

My story is of constant warfare for about 12 years, which were much worse in the last 4 years when he started taking estrogen..... but told me nothing at all. No explanation for his surly, angry, capricious behaviour. Utterly bewildering, utterly enraging! And I would have loved to smash his head off... but (1) it's illegal and (2) I physically could not and (3) I would still have NO explanation for his extraordinary manic behaviour?! So I waited patiently until he was ready to declare: "It's true. I'm a transsexual" and he slammed the door on us 3 months later.
If you are in your seventies and have children, can I please ask if your children know about your situation and would give you their support both emotionally and financially? If so I would cut your losses: kick him out - he is utterly useless - and start divorce proceedings.
In my experience they don't "come back" at that age. It was only when my then ex-H was nearly dead from heart failure and a failed operation for an enlarged prostate that he began, but only began, to have some doubts about what he had done. He died a year ago by falling out of a window which he had designed himself (he was an architect). I am convinced that he committed suicide: he had shown great resolve when he had his penis and balls removed entirely without any support in Feb 2010, so committing suicide would have been in character.
But I am "lucky" in a way now. He is dead and he cannot trouble me and our children who, I am glad to say, had no contact with him (on psychiatrist's advice) and are much the better for their upbringing by me and only me. I have to take some credit for something!
It's all a tragedy. I am campaigning to get the GRA repealed: it is cruelty to a vulnerable man (the Trans-identifying man) to tell him lies about "changing sex". He is none the better for it, and it is also cruel to everyone else who is being forced to "play along". NO. I want the world free of this poisonous nonsense.
I do wish good luck, and peace eventually.
Una

I'm so sorry you are going through this particularly when you have been ill and should really be the focus of his concern. It sounds as if the opportunity to escalate what he's doing in a church context means he will be supported and legitimised. You may need to separate the church element and just think about what you need and want. Do you have non-church support and friends/family to talk to?

@AngeredAndConfused

Hi and sorry to ‘meet’ you under these circumstances. I am a trans widow as well. My story is so like yours and others in many ways but with one difference – mine escalated very quickly with his ‘transition’ and got physically violent all within about 1 month of him ‘coming out’ to me. I left our family home within that month. Reading through everybody else’s stories here and elsewhere I realise this is relatively uncommon as many other women have stuck around longer. Perhaps the men in their lives didn’t escalate as quickly as mine did.

One thing that stood out to me from your post on 19/04/2023 (sorry it’s been a while since I checked in here), was this:

“But, he is a really good DAD ("dad" being different that "mom"). And it pains me to break that relationship and put an ocean between them.”

Based on my experience it is unlikely that keeping the family physically together would help in the long run in these situations. I can only speak from my experience but from the moment my ex ‘came out’ his focus has been his ‘transformation’. His focus in terms of money and attention. His focus shifted drastically from his children. He spent most of his spare time going out with other trans identifying men (i.e. transwomen). He spent a lot of money on his ‘transformation’ (e.g. hair styles, laser hair removal, a lot of new clothes, jewellery, hormones etc and they are the things I know of). Even when he was physically present with his children, he’d be on his phone presumably chatting to his new friends (and who knowns what else!).

Once I left the matrimonial house, he not only found a new partner within 2 months but moved him into our matrimonial house without giving a thought as to how our children might feel.

I am now focusing on being the best mother I can be to my children with their health & well-being at the forefront of my mind. After some time passed from the separation it now feels good to live a life largely free from betrayal and lies.

I am sharing this because I want to highlight that if you choose to leave:

1. you are not the one “breaking” the relationship/family. He did that all on his own; and
2. staying just to keep the family physically together may not always mean the best for our children.

@Allsteamedup
Hi and sorry to ‘meet’ you under these circumstances. I am not a Christian; however I am surprised to hear that there is a “Transgenered Ministry”… like what?? Can I ask what denomination of Christianity that is?

Also, wow you've tolerated CDing for 30 years?! I don't think I even know how to feel, let alone how to comment on that. I going to say this because you sound like a lovely woman who deserves the best in life: maybe after all these years of tolerating, it's time you do what you want. I know it's easier said than done; but I am rooting for you from the other side of the world ❤

Sorry I put that on the wrong thread.

Thank God for a good friend, although far away. She reminded me who I am.
NewTransWidow
It would appear all churches in UK except RC are now offering ministry to LGBTQ+ including a new naming service to transitioners. In the case of Church in Wales they have reportedly rewritten Bible passages that may formerly have judged or offered an unfavourable opinion of LGBTQ+. I am shocked.
As far as escalation- I had not seen it as that, but, yes, I think this is. I have not heard any doubts expressed about where my partner stands between him and God concerning crossdressing in over 15 years. Why now?
Whenever in trouble my partner always blames someone else. A wise counsellor (I have had a few!) once told me to judge a man by what he does, not what he says. So a crossdresser can wail about how he should not be dressing, it will offend God, but go out and buy another frock!
This is about him needing to be important.It does seem a bit of a stretch,even by his past performances.
So though my guts are in ribbons, I can think a bit straighter, and stay out of any drama. That always disappoints him but gives me some thinking space.
What really offends me in all this glad handing of LGBTQ+ is that there is no ministry for the broken hearted and left behind: those partners who married a heterosexual who now wants to transition, those children who had a daddy (or mummy) and are now asked to offer an alternative parental identity. These people are deserving of recognition, too.
I cannot even speculate on the outcome of all this.Usually I try to get ahead of him by talking to people familiar with the situation. Where on earth would I look?¹

Re All Christian churches and "Trans" parishioners:
Last Christmas at a drinks party I was talking with some neighbours about the petition by Sex Matters to "Make the Equality Act Clear". I was soliciting the wife to sign it.... but she demurred: "I don't know. I think there is "gender"". I said flatly: "There isn't. This issue is about biological reality. Sex is a fact, like gravity". The husband intervened and smoothed over the dispute. But I didn't ask to go with them to midnight mass on Christmas Eve. The Church of England is utterly confused - it is tolerating a breakdown in their own doctrine: "Man and woman He created them" (or something. I am not a believer).
The CoE is tolerating the indoctrination of children in its churches with Queer Theory and the unhinging of vulnerable young minds by teaching the notion of "born in the wrong body". No. Never.

There is a lot of gender guff in the CoE of late, definitely.

I suspect the Venn diagram of Beaumont Society members and CoE Vicars, Curates and Bishops has some considerable overlap.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/07/church-of-england-to-consider-use-of-gender-neutral-terms-for-god

I hope I'm not derailing but this OP needs support.
He is still doing it ...... - www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/4804449-he-is-still-doing-it

There is a lot of gender guff in the CoE of late, definitely

Funny how this happens so quickly when women took centuries to be regarded as vaguely human, to be allowed some senior church roles and who have still not got the church to acknowledge that its deity might not be male. Yet, in a puff of rainbow magic ...

I knew a man once who dressed up as a kink. He was a priest, had been an officer in the military, and quite liked the odd frock too. He reckoned he wasn't alone.

Hello. I need some help please or some advice I'm out of my depth here plus its taking over and ruining my life. Basically my daughter's father is calling himself mummy. When I've heard him say it he point blank denies it he tells me I've missheard or gets nasty. Through my pregnancy he was acting really strange i got the impression he was pretending he was pregnant. He would say bizarre things like ive always wanted to get pregnant. He says its sarcasm. Then the min i was heavily pregnant i would put my hands on my belly, he would do the same to himself. I asked him why apparently its something he has always done. Well i have never seen him do it before until i become pregnant. He used to be a cross dresser apparently just for fun. I ask him if he wants to be a woman he says no and gets defensive tells me I'm crazy again gets nasty and hot headed. This has already torn our relationship and friendship apart. I cant even stand to be around him. Its difficult though we live together and have the same friends. All i want from him is for him to stop calling himself mummy

Hi kate, copying my advice over from your thread:

There is no such thing as "used to be a cross dresser", they either continue to do it in secret or they have binge and purge cycles. It won't have been for a laugh, it will have been for sexual reasons. He doesn't have gender dysphoria, he is an autogynephile, ie he gets aroused by himself pretending to be a woman,

Men in this situation getting their child to call them Mum is not unusual, there is a whole thread about it on FWR. Unfortunately I don't think that this in isolation would be of concern to social services (although I'd be happy to be proved wrong).

However putting that aside, (and I 100% understand why that issue feels like the worst thing), you are in a physically and mentally abusive relationship. He is gaslighting you.

You need to live separately ASAP. As others have said, speak to women's aide about getting him out of your property. Are you able to throw his stuff out and change the locks?

Find out what benefits you would be entitled to. As a single parent there's every chance you'd be able to get benefits to cover your rent.

Once you are living separately his opportunities for LARPing as Mum will be vastly reduced and there's every chance he'll lose interest in your child. This is the best way to resolve the situation.

Tell your friends and family about the abuse. You don't necessarily have to mention the appropriation of motherhood just yet if don't want to. The other stuff is bad enough on its own

Scientistranswidow
The relevant material is 'published'(their claim) on a website no-one views regularly.It does not inform the congregation at all.

The end of my post comes as reported to me. I still have to wonder if this is all.
The vicar listened carefully to a relating of the cd journey including photographs(?). She then said her own five year ministry has very few recipientds of any LGBTQ+ hue, so no room for another in ministry. She concluded the voices and urging of the Spirit had more to do with guilt feelings and accepting the love of the Lord might be better. My partner persisted and the suggestion of an Agony Aunt phone line was made.
So he seemed relieved.
Today I managed to say how upsetting this had been for me. Usually if I say something similar I am accused of making him feel guilty. He finds it very difficult to consider anyone else's feelings so it was not surprising I had no response. Clearly he is not happy with his current situation and unable to find a more congenial cd group. I doubt this will rest here.

Considering the very few Lgbtq+ numbers coming forward for worship, why is so much upheaval being caused by rewriting services to include them? This really is very worrying. Again it will take strong voices to resist this.
Thank you all for your input.

Considering the very few Lgbtq+ numbers coming forward for worship, why is so much upheaval being caused by rewriting services to include them?

Patriarchy.

Well, at least your lady vicar seems a sensible sort, Allsteamedup!

I realise it must be difficult to contemplate separation after so many years but how much does your husband really bring to your life? I can’t help but think you are wasting your life on a man who makes you miserable

GC Christians might be interested in Ian Paul's blogposts tagged "transgender" and his fightback against the TG takeover of the CofE:

https://www.psephizo.com/tag/transgender/

About Ian Paul:
https://www.psephizo.com/about/

Horrified, as always, to hear what transwidows and their children are suffering at the hands of these men