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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

983 replies

TinselAngel · 04/05/2021 21:25

Welcome to thread 5. A virtual prize for anyone who can guess the geeky sci fi reference in the thread title.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

  1. You are not alone
  2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
  3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

In four years we have gone from starting the first thread, to launching a website, to be invited to give evidence to a government inquiry, which is pretty spectacular when you think about it.

Thanks to all the women who have told their stories and particularly to those who have stuck around to help others. Thanks also to @socialworker222 who remains nice cop, to my stern cop.

Do say hello to start the thread off!

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TheClogLady · 03/04/2023 13:10

TinselAngel · 03/04/2023 13:00

On a different note, do keep posting everyone because I've just decided on the title for the sixth thread Smile

Me and my friend from Children of Transitioners did our first ever feminist speaking engagement at the International Women's Declaration conference at the weekend. It was a really good session, and showed women are definitely interested in hearing about us.

Oooh! Well done!

is there an audio recording?

TinselAngel · 03/04/2023 13:26

is there an audio recording?

No, it wasn't recorded (which we were happy with in case it was a disaster) but we could definitely consider that next time.

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TheClogLady · 03/04/2023 13:27

Please do! No need for faces, just voices 💐

TinselAngel · 03/04/2023 13:36

When I say "next time", I'm assuming somebody will ask us to do it again of course!

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UtopiaPlanitia · 03/04/2023 14:28

TinselAngel · 03/04/2023 13:00

On a different note, do keep posting everyone because I've just decided on the title for the sixth thread Smile

Me and my friend from Children of Transitioners did our first ever feminist speaking engagement at the International Women's Declaration conference at the weekend. It was a really good session, and showed women are definitely interested in hearing about us.

babylon 5 reaction gifs GIF by hero0fwar

I just rewatched B5, the TV movies, and Crusade, so I am ready and eager to see what you use for the thread title. Hoping it’s something Vorlon-esque i.e. enigmatic… and profound but only if you know what they’re talking about 🤓😊

Congrats on speaking at IWD conference 👏 So glad to hear it went well and hope many more opportunities will happen in the future!

TinselAngel · 03/04/2023 16:00

I don't have the patience to be enigmatic.

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UtopiaPlanitia · 03/04/2023 16:44

TinselAngel · 03/04/2023 16:00

I don't have the patience to be enigmatic.

Ah, you’re like Ivanova - you say exactly what you mean 👍

Anyway, I’ll stop digressing now.

I’m glad that some organisations want to hear the testimony of trans widows because your voices are so often ignored and suppressed - you’re treated as the shameful secret of the TRA movement and it’s so unfair and dishonest. Reading the life stories here has absolutely opened my eyes and made me realise that I want to always put women first when this topic is discussed.

TinselAngel · 03/04/2023 17:20

I would like to think I'm very like Ivanova!

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AngeredAndConfused · 18/04/2023 23:07

I'm in the process of becoming a "transwidow".

My spouse has recently declared that he "thinks he might be trans" before saying he was "confused" and really isn't. (It's been a downward spiral of porn hidden as "burnout" then confessions of crossdressing, now here).

I'm certain he suffers from AGP (or at least severe problems with trauma/gender stemming from abuse/neglect in childhood and his family's screwed up "traditional" world views).

I've been reading all the threads and the 3rd thread about "women's work" really hit me.

When he made his proclamation, I had just started the heavy lifting in potty training our toddler (I had ordered some books, started looking into the different methods, etc).

I said "Well, if you are a women, then you are a "mom" and you better get used to the responsibilities, social pressures and expectations. Why aren't you reading that stack of parenting books, buying the clothes, stressing about the parenting decisions and overwhelmed with mom guilt."

He actually had the AUDACITY to tell me that the mental load and mom guilt, etc was in my head and "part of my personality". "You like to research things and worry about things. Plenty of women just wing it. These things aren't what being a woman is about."

Like "WHAT ON EARTH?" I've lived in this body for 37 years. In multiple countries, multiple languages with friends and acquaintances of all walks of life, PLEASE don't tell me what I/our shared experiences are, and how invalid they are based off of your "feeling" that you were meant to wear a make-up and a bra.

We've fought since the birth of our son about the division of labor in our house, as he's pushed harder and harder to force us into stereotypical gender roles (all while demanding kudos for what a great/involved father he is because he manages daycare drop off if I make sure breakfast and clothes are easy for him to find and bath/bedtime half the week).

When he came out about the porn addiction/cross dressing, and his depression was really apparent, I pushed him to do therapy and he stumbled into working with a "gender affirming" therapist which he admits "made things worse." He's started proper therapy and anti-anxiety/anti-depressant meds, and I hope that if we don't stay together we can at least be amicable coparents.

But, phrases like that make me feel so invalidated and unseen that I don't know if there is any recovery of trust/respect.

socialworker222 · 19/04/2023 08:13

Welcome Angered. Sadly your experience of selective fetishistic 'womanhood' (the clothes, the make-up, none of the rest) is common in our community. You seem to be considering staying, and maybe are hoping the therapy and treatment works to make him realize the roots of his dissatisfaction with himself. Maybe it will but it is worth preparing for the worst particularly as you have a child. You lose nothing by prepping your financial/legal rights. For many women what you describe is an inevitable and downward spiral including wasting large amounts of shared funds on things like clothes. It's beyond aggravating to be told how to do womanhood, so we empathize. Do you have friends and family for support?

AngeredAndConfused · 19/04/2023 10:32

@socialworker222

I "sort of" have support.

Like, many of the other posters, my h works in IT and we moved abroad 4 years ago for his career. To be fair, in his country of origin (where I spent most of my adult life), there aren't a lot of jobs for people with his level of education. Before we moved, he was still a student, I was the breadwinner and our relationship was much more equitable.

Luckily, I've been able to maintain my business (working remotely and travelling a few times a year). But, with exchange rates, while I do very well where I work, where we live now I am more dependent on him financially, socially and linguistically. It hasn't been easily balancing raising toddler without a support network and running a business (I work 7pm to 1am), and until his last 6-9months of revelations, our biggest source of arguments has been my feeling that he was increasingly trying to push me away from my job and into a traditional/subservient housewife/travelling spouse role.

My entire self-definition and social circle where we are in conditioned around our relationship. I've made it clear that I have zero interest in staying as a wife of a woman or an ex-wife as he explores his needs. Leaving, I have savings and conditions to buy a house (with a mortgage), afford a top notch education for my kids and hire domestic help to handle single mother hood.

But, he is a really good DAD ("dad" being different that "mom"). And it pains me to break that relationship and put an ocean between them.

It's become increasingly clear how his childhood was marred with neglect, verbal, emotional and religious abuse. His mom has NPD and is incredibly vain (she is the stereotype that AGP men seek to approximate exaggeratedly thin and meak, ingored her children and only cared about fashion and beauty, been divorced for 20 years and refuses to admit it has never worked and lives off money she demands from her husband and sons). The family line is always that the poor mom "can't control her behavior you know women".... Dad just started working away for longer and longer periods, until he eventually was fully moved out rather than confront mom. And there is a lot of sick religious based manipulation in terms of "being a good son" and gender expectations.

I think it's hard for him to break that stereotype and be a caring father, without accepting/confronting the abuse and problems in his family that I think much of this stems from. I do hope that therapy can help him come to terms with that and overcome his addiction and confusion.

I'm expecting a second child in September. The plan is to buy an apartment and move in March, where my work and support network is. That will give me more stability and economic power in case things go sideways. He is "looking for remote work" so he can join us. I feel a lot of the socialized female guilt of "forcing" him to give up a good career (though he never thought twice of making such requests of me). The "possibly trans" thing is pretty fresh (2 weeks), but I'm slowly preparing myself for this to be the end of the marriage (part of me screams that this move being his idea is a way for him to dump us, live a secret life in the country we are now, and play me as the bad guy who stole his kids cuz she "wasn't happy with living in country X").

My biggest fear is that he turns into his bother and tries to fill my kids' heads with that mysoginistic nonsense.

Hoping for the best, but slowly and painfully prepping for the worst.

AngeredAndConfused · 19/04/2023 10:36

*that he turns into his mother, not brother.

Though his brother, a crazy religious zealot who leads anti-abortion campaigns and events centered on the scared role of women/mothers in the home, isn't much better.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 19/04/2023 11:19

It hasn't been easily balancing raising toddler without a support network and running a business (I work 7pm to 1am), and until his last 6-9months of revelations, our biggest source of arguments has been my feeling that he was increasingly trying to push me away from my job and into a traditional/subservient housewife/travelling spouse role.

He is a classic abuser who wants you dependent on him so that he can prevent you from escaping.

socialworker222 · 20/04/2023 16:23

It's good you have a Plan B. You may need to stop worrying what stories he tells about you and any future break-up although it takes time to not care. (My ex told a tale with me as the villain behind his estrangement from his children, but I and my family and friends know the truth of what happened, as do my kids who remember vividly his terrible behaviour). In-laws tend to need to believe the nonsense due to loyalty. You can only be very clear about your boundaries and priorities.
You say he is a really good Dad, and a test of that will be how sensitively he handles whatever happens with your child and future child and whether he manages to put them first. Plenty of couples split up for other reasons and manage to co-parent. In these cases contributors have often found men change rapidly and once-good Dad's become entirely focussed on themselves at a great cost to their kids.

TinselAngel · 02/05/2023 16:20

Feels appropriate to mark the moment, back where it all started:

twitter.com/transwidows/status/1653417809005666309?s=46&t=PSGltfjrMyZmBtYq2-AVIQ

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WalkedAway · 02/05/2023 17:07

Kudos to you, Tinsel. Transwidows owe you a tremendous debt!

womanundone · 02/05/2023 17:27

@TinselAngel I just want to say thank you from my heart. I have and am living this nightmare, had my life stolen 28 years ago. My children are hurting so much too. Thank you for being a brave voice in the silent wilderness.

TinselAngel · 02/05/2023 17:30

I'm still a bit gobsmacked about the whole thing. I will have a couple of guns later and try to process it.

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IcakethereforeIam · 02/05/2023 17:40

Well done @TinselAngel and the people with you. I'm assuming you meant GinGrin

Flowers to all the women on these threads.

TinselAngel · 02/05/2023 17:41

Yes I meant gin!!!!

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socialworker222 · 02/05/2023 18:56

Well done. Amazing to be given a hearing at that level, and you're very stunning and brave to do it. You've made such a difference to the lives of women like me. I wish I could buy you that gin 😍

TinselAngel · 02/05/2023 19:10

socialworker222 · 02/05/2023 18:56

Well done. Amazing to be given a hearing at that level, and you're very stunning and brave to do it. You've made such a difference to the lives of women like me. I wish I could buy you that gin 😍

Next time we meet I will allow you to!

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moimichme · 05/05/2023 19:07

Well done, Tinsel - your work really has made a difference! I'll buy you a gin, too, if we ever get together in person. 😊

Allsteamedup · 08/05/2023 12:20

I could do with some help, folks.
After watching the coronation on Saturday my partner turned to me, obviously moved. "What did you think of the Archbishop of Canterbury''s speech' he asked. I said I liked the religious element and his reference to service.
Partner then says 'I have an appointment at the Cathedral on Thursday to talk about Transgendered Ministry. I think I am being called'.
I was blindsided.Where the hell did that come from? Speechless and very confused. No prior discussion. Some hours later I was able to say that he would be 'outing' our whole family.(he has always demanded secrecy but after thirty years I eventually broke to three friends some while ago). He said that was a concern he would be discussing with this third party.
A Google search found something called 'Open Table ' at a church sixty miles away and a contact I recognised having given a talk to the tg group monthly attended. This group has been a source of disturbance to my partner lately, having taken a very political turn with much pressure on crossdressers to transition; they are outnumbered.
As far as I am aware separating any LGBTQ+ is not allowed and any ministry is all embracing. What is it I am missing here? My partner is not comfortable with his CDIng in religious terms, has never been more than a peripheral member of the community, loathes gay people, what the hell? I am desperately confused.

TinselAngel · 08/05/2023 14:04

Allsteamedup · 08/05/2023 12:20

I could do with some help, folks.
After watching the coronation on Saturday my partner turned to me, obviously moved. "What did you think of the Archbishop of Canterbury''s speech' he asked. I said I liked the religious element and his reference to service.
Partner then says 'I have an appointment at the Cathedral on Thursday to talk about Transgendered Ministry. I think I am being called'.
I was blindsided.Where the hell did that come from? Speechless and very confused. No prior discussion. Some hours later I was able to say that he would be 'outing' our whole family.(he has always demanded secrecy but after thirty years I eventually broke to three friends some while ago). He said that was a concern he would be discussing with this third party.
A Google search found something called 'Open Table ' at a church sixty miles away and a contact I recognised having given a talk to the tg group monthly attended. This group has been a source of disturbance to my partner lately, having taken a very political turn with much pressure on crossdressers to transition; they are outnumbered.
As far as I am aware separating any LGBTQ+ is not allowed and any ministry is all embracing. What is it I am missing here? My partner is not comfortable with his CDIng in religious terms, has never been more than a peripheral member of the community, loathes gay people, what the hell? I am desperately confused.

Sorry I'm confused. Is he a vicar already?

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