Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

[TinselAngel]

Welcome to thread 5. A virtual prize for anyone who can guess the geeky sci fi reference in the thread title.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

In four years we have gone from starting the first thread, to launching a website, to be invited to give evidence to a government inquiry, which is pretty spectacular when you think about it.

Thanks to all the women who have told their stories and particularly to those who have stuck around to help others. Thanks also to @socialworker222 who remains nice cop, to my stern cop.

Do say hello to start the thread off!

Counselling helped me so much. If you can't afford to pay, it's worth getting referred and onto a waiting list for free therapy as soon as possible. You may never need or want it but you could certainly do with someone to talk to about this.

Hey hope its if I post here. Last night my partner told me he was trans and I don't know I am so confused and don't understand. We're not married but we have 2 kids together and a 3rd due in May. To start with I honestly thought he was joking but then he wasn't and then I got really mad and I told him he wasn't and then he kept insisting and he said he's always known and then I got mad again and told him he was a liar and everything had been a lie. And then he was like I can't deal with you in this state and said he was leaving and he went to stay with his parents last night. He says he is coming home tonight but he sent me a really patronising voice note and I just don't understand at all. He says that he hopes 'I love him enough to have a respectful conversation' and it was like there were so many things he said that really annoyed me. I knew he was acting really strange recently and he had been spending a lot of time not at home and I thought he was cheating on me and now he says he was at support groups and therapy and this feels so much worse than him cheating. I just don't understand and I feel so confused and I don't know how it will be if he becomes a girl and how that will effect our children and he is their father and I don't understand anything. Like he's not really feminine at all I don't get it and there have been a few times where he's like done drag but I thought it was a bit of a joke and just a bit of fun and quite liked he was confident enough and not actually like serious. I don't get it and I feel like either he's lied all our relationship or he's lieing now and I don't know it just makes no sense

Hi Ellie you are very welcome here. I'm so sorry you just found this out particularly so close to having your baby. (I'm very cross for you, the timing seems appalling, but I'll keep a lid on that). My ex also dropped it on me having himself done months and years of secret research snd networking. It feels terrible and shocking. Do you feel able to hear him out tonight, and find out what he is intending to do? You don't rught now have to take a view or make any decisions. You can hear what he has to say then say you need time to think. He owes you that courtesy at least. We are here for you and many of us have been through this.

@socialworker222

Hi Ellie you are very welcome here. I'm so sorry you just found this out particularly so close to having your baby. (I'm very cross for you, the timing seems appalling, but I'll keep a lid on that). My ex also dropped it on me having himself done months and years of secret research snd networking. It feels terrible and shocking. Do you feel able to hear him out tonight, and find out what he is intending to do? You don't rught now have to take a view or make any decisions. You can hear what he has to say then say you need time to think. He owes you that courtesy at least. We are here for you and many of us have been through this.

I know it seems like he could have waited but ig it would be almost as bad with 3 young children in a year. But he literally said that 'it was understandable that I was upset especially as I was hormonal and that he hopes we can have a grown up conversation tonight' and its like this really pissed me off and I don't know. I don't know how I feel about anything and I don't know how to react or anything and I guess but I don't know. I think you're right I need to do that and I don't know if it will ever sink in

'it was understandable that I was upset especially as I was hormonal and that he hopes we can have a grown up conversation tonight'

He sounds like a condescending misogynist.

I think you have more than grounds to be pissed off. This is an enormous bombshell delivered it seems with no apology or concern for how you may feel. My experience was exactly that and I am to this day staggered that someone could care so little for the impact on those they purport to care for. Unfortunately you will find a lot of people on here who experienced that kind of self-absorption and callousness. I'd suggest you just try to bide your time, find out what he is doing, and take your time to think through what you want to do. You do not have to comment or decide anything.

Mine keeps telling me I am making it all about me when it’s nothing to do with me, it’s happening to him.

Not an actual trans widow but I did have an ex-bf who was secretly using my clothes and my sex toys to get himself off with. When I found out and confronted him, he asked me for a threesome with a trans woman. He has since transitioned, but I had long since broken up with him before he made it to that.

So sorry if my comment is not welcome here but I just wanted to say it anyways.

For those who deep down know that you will head for divorce....

Please remember that you do not owe your husband an apology, you do not owe him your current thoughts or knowledge of your future plannings.

Keep your cards close to your chest, hire a decent solicitor, get your ducks in a row. He doesn’t need to know you are doing any of this. The less he knows the better.

People like this are usually master manipulators, they will try to keep you on the back-foot by playing to your emotions to buy themselves time and will also likely already be siphoning/hiding finances for themselves.

Inaction is not a neutral act for you now.

Also, I am so sorry, I hope you are able to find happiness and peace with whatever decisions and futures await you.

I've had a conversation with him about it and I still feel just as pissed off at him. He says I am right to be angry but I should be 'angry at society and not angry at him'. He says he has known he was a girl 'pretty much all his life' which I just don't believe I know that sounds bad but I just think there is no way the man I met was actually a woman and had gender dysphoria. I asked him what it felt like and he said that it was hard to explain but he just felt his body was wrong and he would be more comfortable and happier as a woman and that was who he was meant to be. I asked him what he felt he couldn't do as a man and he said there wasn't anything specific but he couldn't be himself and I asked him in what way and he said it was hard to explain. He says that he is coming out now as he has been inspired by another transwoman from work who started working there recently and talking with her has really helped him. He said our relationship has been '100% genuine' even though he was keeping this all to himself. Though he half retracted that and said that 'all the important stuff in our relationship was 100% genuine' and he's 'only really kept this to himself and nothing else'. He says he is a lesbian. He says he thinks everything happens for a reason and he knows that I wouldn't have dated him had he come out before we met, and he thinks that maybe him not coming out for so long was because we're meant to be together. Which literally makes no sense. He says that I will love him a lot more when he becomes the women he was meant to be. He has been going along to therapy and a support group for about 2 months and they all encouraged him to tell me. I had realised he was away a lot more and I thought he was cheating. He says he isn't ready to come out to everyone just yet and needs more time as he doesn't fully understand everything he is feeling himself. But he eventually hopes to have HRT and fully transition and hopes that talking to me would give him more of an idea of when he is going to tell other people and fully transition. He said I was right to be angry but that it wasn't his fault and I should be angry at society and not at him. I told him I wasn't going to do that yet and I didn't think that we could stay together. He says that our children having 2 mums was literally not a problem at all and was a non issue. He thinks it would be good for them and him doing this would make him a better parent as it would make him understand the world better himself and understand himself. He says that I need to understand how tough it is for him and that it was 'a lot tougher for him understanding everything than it is for me'. And if 'I can't support him when he was going through the toughest time of his life then our relationship meant a lot less to me than he thought' and that a relationship isn't supposed to be about just the good times and we're a proper partnership. He says he promises if I stick with him through this that good times would soon come. Basically I feel even more angry and confused about everything and I don't know what to think and even more it just confuses me and makes no sense and I've dated him for 9 years and still I never knew anything and I feel like he's lied so much and now he just doesn't care and I feel like this isn't him and it isn't the person I love and it just makes no sense

@socialworker222

I think you have more than grounds to be pissed off. This is an enormous bombshell delivered it seems with no apology or concern for how you may feel. My experience was exactly that and I am to this day staggered that someone could care so little for the impact on those they purport to care for. Unfortunately you will find a lot of people on here who experienced that kind of self-absorption and callousness. I'd suggest you just try to bide your time, find out what he is doing, and take your time to think through what you want to do. You do not have to comment or decide anything.

He's kinda half apologised but he basically said it was society's problem that this was happening and we were both a victim of society and it wasn't his fault at all. I just don't understand he just seems to think oh everything will be fine she loves me she will accept the real me and we'll live happily ever after and it's just like that's not going to happen and I just don't know he has zero empathy. I don't know I just don't understand anything and I don't see how I will ever understand. I don't know. You're right hopefully in a few days it will be a bit better and less confusing but I don't know

@Lost2022 and @Ellie3094 Hi both, and so sorry you're dealing with such intense feelings, they can feel overwhelming in the beginning.
Yes, currently, all mainstream support is focused on the trans partner due to the current cultural climate, but that IN NO WAY diminishes the truth of our experiences. I've found the most close friends that I reveal this part of my past to are immensely reasonable and sympathetic. As mentioned previously, we/they just can't say it in public. I do not believe this will always be the case, but support for trans widows is difficult to come by. However, most of the posters here have been through the worst and are out the other end. It does get better.

This issue can be quite confusing, but to preserve your own equilibrium on not be distracted by gaslighting, I've found it helps to remove the 'because they're trans' issue from the equation. For example, your partner has taken steps that will greatly decrease the chance of you becoming pregnant at a time when you are actively trying to become pregnant, knows this, and lied about it. Or, your partner has been creeping around for years contemplating a major life change while keeping you in the dark and then when you become upset when he reveals it (that's why he hid it), he treats you with contempt and condescension.

There is no excuse for this behaviour.

You're in a painful place, but your partners also seem to be behaving abominably, gender issues or no gender issues. So, what are the most empowering and self-protective decisions you can make moving forward? Shifting the focus from their issues to my own future broke my heart at first but also ejected me from the mental-health destroying roller coaster that staying with my ex husband had me on.

It's nice your partner is ready for an adult conversation. Because that means he intends to empathise with and validate your feelings, riiiiiiight? Otherwise, it sounds like he's throwing you under the bus so that he doesn't have to feel bad.

Why is this terrible behaviour so embedded in 'the script' we experience? I'll say it again, gaslghting, minimising, contempt, invalidation, these are abuse tactics and there's no excuse. Full stop.

Your feelings, your discomfort, your cognitive dissonance, your anger, all of these are valid and completely understandable, no matter what your partner (who has a vested interest in brushing this under the rug and you being 'wrong' so that they can pursue their impulses) may say.

Sorry for the rant, but I hear this stuff and it's all so familiar, just brings those dark years rushing back to me and makes me really angry that women are still going through this same thing in exactly the same way.

At least for now, it may be more empowering to detach emotionally. Protect yourself and your peace first.

Good advice Bunshine. You will have to work out what you want. Not what he wants or what he says you should do (my ex also said it would be no big deal in the current climate, for our kids and boy was that a complacent, insensitive and self-serving assumption). If you can choose one safe person to confide in it may really help, so that you can get your heads straight. Your priorities are now your children and you. He is very likely to press ahead and do what he wants. If you stick around out of loyalty, or financial/housing reasons, have a back up plan. A free first session with a lawyer is good. Doesn't matter if you never need the info, but you are armed with advice. There are no stats but it appears that at least half of relationships end with this, so don't let him imply to you that any reasonable woman would stay. Truth is they are more likely to leave. He's said his piece Ellie and it doesn't look as if he has any curiosity for or concern for your feelings and fears, so you need to try to keep calm and focused on those priorities and start to think. It's very hard to do that alongside normal family life. I did it and it was terribly stressful but as said above, there is a future and you will get through this nightmare.

Thanks everyone this is really helpful all your advice. I'm kinda embarrassed to tell people irl atm as I think it is his choice to and I don't know and it just doesn't seem really and it just feels like such a weird thing. You're right that is helpful he is like that he's treated me badly regardless and he just says it is tougher for him and it just seems like he doesn't care. Tbh I can't see myself staying with him and I think we will break up I just don't know how it'll be with our kids having him as a mum and it just makes no sense. I think you're right he is kinda gaslighting and I just don't understand anything and nothing he says makes sense. He does earn quite a bit more than me and I am worried a bit about that if I leave and I don't know how everything will work with the kids mainly. I'm trying really hard just to focus on the kids but I am so confused by it and can't stop thinking about everything and I don't know and nothing makes sense

Ellie it's a complete bombshell. I barely functioned for months, and just went through the motions of work and kids like a robot. You could do with some legal advice about your situation it seems to me, for.reassurance about your finances if you decide to leave. I hope you can talk to someone.

I just don't know how it'll be with our kids having him as a mum
He is not and never will be their Mum, and for everybody's sake you should keep hold of that.

@socialworker222

Ellie it's a complete bombshell. I barely functioned for months, and just went through the motions of work and kids like a robot. You could do with some legal advice about your situation it seems to me, for.reassurance about your finances if you decide to leave. I hope you can talk to someone.

I'm like that now I just its all I can think about. Thanks I think this is probably a good idea just talking with a lawyer is just it feels so scary and I've never done that before and I don't know it just feels like it doesn't seem right when we're in a previously good relationship and we have kids it feels like we should be able to work it out between ourselves but maybe this is super naive I'm just scared of it all. But I'm a bit clueless financially tbh I leave most of that to him. I don't know I just feel like getting a lawyer should be a last resort and feel really bad about doing that especially behind his back.

@TinselAngel

I just don't know how it'll be with our kids having him as a mum He is not and never will be their Mum, and for everybody's sake you should keep hold of that.

I don't know if I can though as he is their parent and if he wants to be their mum and asks them to call him that then what can I do as I think most of his therapists and people in his support group would think he is right and I don't know and the kids won't understand I don't know how I can explain to them anything it just makes no sense to me so I don't know how they can understand at 2 and 4

What you do is you raise merry hell and absolutely refuse to allow anyone to tell your kids that their dad is now their mum. It's downright abusive to tell a child that lie and is pretty much the same as a bereavement to tell them they no longer have a father. They will only ever have one mum and that is YOU, the woman who birthed them.

Yes your husband is their parent. And being a parent means always putting your childrens welfare before your own delicate feelings. That means dropping this silly conceit of appropriating your role to pander to their vanity and accepting that they HAVE to accept they must always be their children's father. If they can't do this they are a poor excuse for a parent.

Please, for your sake and that of your children, find your anger and stand up to these delusional idiots. You do NOT need to accept their ridiculous, illogical nonsense.

Ellie I am not a trans widow but I do look in on the thread now and again. I feel very passionately about women's rights and family support.

I just wanted to to comment as you said "...I'm a bit clueless financially tbh I leave most of that to him. I don't know I just feel like getting a lawyer should be a last resort and feel really bad about doing that especially behind his back."

I think you really need to get clued up on the finances, and also to get advice. You have said up-thread you do not think you will stay with him,

"He said I was right to be angry but that it wasn't his fault and I should be angry at society and not at him. I told him I wasn't going to do that yet and I didn't think that we could stay together."

...so you do need to prepare for that even if you do choose to stay together.

There are so many issues, there is all the emotional stuff but there is also the practical stuff. You are the mum to three children, one still in your tummy, and you have to ensure their future and care for them.

Your partner, I am sure, does care about the kids, but does he look after them most of the time, know their needs and care for those needs? Or is it you, who does most of the caring?

He sounds like he is very wrapped up in himself at the moment and so someone has to think about the kids' needs.

Please do not think you have to give him a heads up about everything you are thinking and or/planning/doing?

He has told you that he has been looking into this for a short while/while also saying he has known for a long time. Yet, has not given you a heads up on any of this until you are living together with two kids and one on the way.

Whatever the reason that you felt your relationship may not continue, you are within your rights to make your plans, think about your own situation, etc, as he has been doing.

Whatever the future holds, I wish you all the best, and I hope you will be able to find a pathway through this that will be best for all of you. Bearing in mind that what is best for you may not be best for him, and vice versa.

You have to think of yourself. Whether you stay together or not is a joint decision and so if one wants to leave and one wants to stay, it cannot work. I just wanted to wish you all the best and hope the others on the thread don't mind me pitching in.

(For total transparency, I am happily married and have not been through this. We have a trans child - I am definitely not in your position, and I am not anti trans; I am pro women, pro family and pro everyone getting the same chance as other people to do something they want to do. He will follow his own pathway, I am sure. and you can make your own choices.

Many contributors to this thread advise seeking some basic, often free, legal/financial advice because of the speed at which they have experienced men pressing ahead with 'transition', the often-secret and unnegotiated spending of family finances involved, and the failure of attempts to hold boundaries and agreements about behaviour, respect and collaboration on managing this bombshell. I certainly started out very collaborative, civilised intentions but rapidly discovered my husband opted to breach pretty much all the agreements we'd made (including as part of our collaborative divorce) about handling the children's feelings, making changes to his appearance, finances and the agreed timescale for change. It sounds like you want to wait and see which is of course entirely up to you, and maybe your partner will be reasonable and fair. But thus far he doesn't seem to have thought much about your feelings and needs, so I guess we are ringing a warning bell in suggesting you equip yourself with professional advice just in case. Provided you can tolerate waiting to see what happens next, and working it out yourselves, you may decide for now to go with that. But by only talking to him about this and no other neutral, professional or supportive parties for yourself, you are likely to carry a huge load alone. I certainly couldn't have done that and needed a circle of supportive people (solicitor, friends, family, counsellor for me) around me fairly quickly.

Agreed. Get legal and financial advice immediately. You can bet he's more things behind your back than you can imagine.

My ExH completely disregarded mine and our daughter's feelings after he decided to live his best stunning and brave life without any discussion and caused her to have a massive mental health crisis at the age of only 7 which took 2 years of careful professional support to even begin to improve. Luckily I was pretty financially independent (house and assets in my name only which I owned for many years before he hoovered me up) and I very quickly filed for divorce and protected myself and the children. He is now living in pretty much in practical and financial dire straights after sucking his business dry to fund his lifestyle and losing all his clients with his aggressive attitude.

Getting professional advice is definitely a good idea. I’m quite financially independent from my husband so I’m not too worried about that side of things.

I’ve told him I have no interest in becoming some weird faux lesbian couple and that he has to choose this or me, he says he chooses me but let’s see how long that lasts. He can be pretty good to talk to about this (depending on what mood he is in) and listens to what I’m saying because he knows I’m a logical person who is trying to look out for his best interests. I just wish there was mental health help that could help us, I feel like the system has hung people like him out to dry for the sake of political correctness and fear of the mob.

Ellie, I’m very sorry you are going through this too, especially being pregnant, it’s a complete headf#%k at the best of times.

You're right I probably need to get some legal and financial advice and yes he has gone behind my back far more than I would be doing that and it seems ok. Thanks I shall try and do that and you're right I don't know what he is going to do and he doesn't seem to care and thinks it is no big deal and its like if you think its no big deal then why has it taken so long and so many years lieing to me and I don't understand. I do a lot more of looking after the kids and the housework than him and he has been doing a lot less these past 2 months as well and he's not been much of a dad for this past month. I am kinda scared that if we do split then he will want to have the kids 50% of the time and I don't want that and I need legal help for that maybe too if that happens. I've just never had to deal with anything like this before or any legal stuff and I don't know what I want or what to say to a lawyer anyway. I just want this all to go back to how it was before

@WifeOfTiresias

What you do is you raise merry hell and absolutely refuse to allow anyone to tell your kids that their dad is now their mum. It's downright abusive to tell a child that lie and is pretty much the same as a bereavement to tell them they no longer have a father. They will only ever have one mum and that is YOU, the woman who birthed them.

Yes your husband is their parent. And being a parent means always putting your childrens welfare before your own delicate feelings. That means dropping this silly conceit of appropriating your role to pander to their vanity and accepting that they HAVE to accept they must always be their children's father. If they can't do this they are a poor excuse for a parent.

Please, for your sake and that of your children, find your anger and stand up to these delusional idiots. You do NOT need to accept their ridiculous, illogical nonsense.

I don't know as if 2 lesbians had a baby and one of them birthed them then they call both of them mum and not just the one who birthed them and so ig he will argue that there is no difference and it is hard to argue with that but I really don't want that and I don't know he won't want them calling him daddy maybe anymore. I don't know we talked about it briefly and he said that that's what he wants eventually and I said that I was really uncomfortable with that and he was like well I'm more uncomfortable with them calling me daddy and it is really hard. I don't know I find it quite hard to argue with him and I am scared I am going to say something really bad. I'm scared about how the kids will find this and how it will effect them and he just says its not a big deal and they are good at accepting people and I just don't think it is true but I feel like I don't know how to argue And also we're not married, I wanted to be but he thought that marriage wouldn't really change anything and that it was better to use that money on other things. But ig its kinda good that we aren't now.

Ellie " I do a lot more of looking after the kids and the housework than him and he has been doing a lot less these past 2 months as well and he's not been much of a dad for this past month. I am kinda scared that if we do split then he will want to have the kids 50% of the time and I don't want that and I need legal help for that maybe too if that happens."

Your youngest child is not even out of your womb yet, how could your partner expect 50/50 care of a brand new baby. It sounds like he hasn't been doing a lot of the caring lately, how much did he do in the past. Your children need stability, I am not sure your partner can give that, especially at this moment.

"I've just never had to deal with anything like this before or any legal stuff and I don't know what I want or what to say to a lawyer anyway."

I think that is why you need legal help and advice. And probably many people who seek his type of advice are doing it for the first time... Just tell the lawyer whatever is relevant, your concerns etc. And how to protect yourself and the kids. EG do you own your home together or rent, or does he own it? Etc You don't need to tell us but you need to think about all this.

I'm sure others will be able to tell you much better than I, how to prepare yourself.

" I just want this all to go back to how it was before..."

I am so sorry that this is so hard. I've not been in your shoes but one thing I think it is safe to say is it is not going to go back as it was before. As they say, "You can't put the genie back in the bottle." And having presumably waited so long to come out I don't think your partner will wish to do that anyway.

Good luck.