Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

[TinselAngel]

Welcome to thread 5. A virtual prize for anyone who can guess the geeky sci fi reference in the thread title.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

In four years we have gone from starting the first thread, to launching a website, to be invited to give evidence to a government inquiry, which is pretty spectacular when you think about it.

Thanks to all the women who have told their stories and particularly to those who have stuck around to help others. Thanks also to @socialworker222 who remains nice cop, to my stern cop.

Do say hello to start the thread off!

this type of advice...

@Ellie3094 , you are not in the same situation as the two lesbian mums though. In their case the child has been brought up from birth with two mums, that is their normal and safely bonded situation.

In your case your H fathered children as a man, brought them up and bonded with them as their Daddy. That was his choice. Now he wants to pull the rug on them and expects them to get their head round a situation where their Dad had disappeared and been replaced by a stranger who is insisting they call them Mum. This is abusive as they know that they only have one Mum - you - but they are being forced to pretend this stranger is also their Mum and their Dad is effectively dead. Hideously traumatic for a young child.

This was the hill I was prepared to die on. No way was I going' to allow my kids to be traumatised like that. I told H that he either accepted the DC would call him Dad or I would leave with the DC and do everything in my power to stop him seeing them.

Remember your H does not get to dictate how things should happen. He is trying to make out that his feelings need to come first but that is not the action of a caring parent. A decent parent always puts their children first. If he can't do that you need to protect them from his toxic bullshit.

Luckily H came to his senses and realised I was right so we have been able to have a successful coparenting relationship.

Very few single Dads want 50% of the care of young children, and our exes are generally no different in that respect, they've got other things to do.

@Italiangreyhound

Ellie " I do a lot more of looking after the kids and the housework than him and he has been doing a lot less these past 2 months as well and he's not been much of a dad for this past month. I am kinda scared that if we do split then he will want to have the kids 50% of the time and I don't want that and I need legal help for that maybe too if that happens."

Your youngest child is not even out of your womb yet, how could your partner expect 50/50 care of a brand new baby. It sounds like he hasn't been doing a lot of the caring lately, how much did he do in the past. Your children need stability, I am not sure your partner can give that, especially at this moment.

"I've just never had to deal with anything like this before or any legal stuff and I don't know what I want or what to say to a lawyer anyway."

I think that is why you need legal help and advice. And probably many people who seek his type of advice are doing it for the first time... Just tell the lawyer whatever is relevant, your concerns etc. And how to protect yourself and the kids. EG do you own your home together or rent, or does he own it? Etc You don't need to tell us but you need to think about all this.

I'm sure others will be able to tell you much better than I, how to prepare yourself.

" I just want this all to go back to how it was before..."

I am so sorry that this is so hard. I've not been in your shoes but one thing I think it is safe to say is it is not going to go back as it was before. As they say, "You can't put the genie back in the bottle." And having presumably waited so long to come out I don't think your partner will wish to do that anyway.

Good luck.

I don't know I just don't understand anything and I have no clue what he is thinking. I don't think he will want 50/50 care of our newborn when she is born but I am worried he might want 50/50 care of our other 2. You are right in that I don't think he can give them stability when he is transitioning but that makes me more worried and I think he might think that he is their mum now and I don't know I just worry about it. He's a good dad when he actually spends time with them but I've always done a lot more than him and he's got worse recently and he didn't really do enough to start with. And I'm worried about that now is not the right time to leave with a baby on the way as I need his support when the baby is born but I don't know if he will give me enough and I don't know if being with him is going to just make it worse if he is really unstable and I don't know. And I don't even know what will happen if we do split. I don't even know if we both own our house or if it is just him I honestly just thought we'd be together forever and that it didn't matter and I feel stupid about that now and I don't know and I am such a mess that I don't even know if I own my house.

Ellie one step at a time. Get help.

"He's a good dad when he actually spends time with them but I've always done a lot more than him and he's got worse recently and he didn't really do enough to start with. And I'm worried about that now is not the right time to leave with a baby on the way as I need his support when the baby is born but I don't know if he will give me enough..."

It doesn't sound as if he is a really great dad. Even if he did want 50/50 care you have to think what is best for the kids. I know you will. Sometimes it sounds selfish for a mum to say she is best for the kids - but she often is.

[quote WifeOfTiresias]@Ellie3094 , you are not in the same situation as the two lesbian mums though. In their case the child has been brought up from birth with two mums, that is their normal and safely bonded situation.

In your case your H fathered children as a man, brought them up and bonded with them as their Daddy. That was his choice. Now he wants to pull the rug on them and expects them to get their head round a situation where their Dad had disappeared and been replaced by a stranger who is insisting they call them Mum. This is abusive as they know that they only have one Mum - you - but they are being forced to pretend this stranger is also their Mum and their Dad is effectively dead. Hideously traumatic for a young child.

This was the hill I was prepared to die on. No way was I going' to allow my kids to be traumatised like that. I told H that he either accepted the DC would call him Dad or I would leave with the DC and do everything in my power to stop him seeing them.

Remember your H does not get to dictate how things should happen. He is trying to make out that his feelings need to come first but that is not the action of a caring parent. A decent parent always puts their children first. If he can't do that you need to protect them from his toxic bullshit.

Luckily H came to his senses and realised I was right so we have been able to have a successful coparenting relationship.[/quote]
You're right and I really don't want them to call him mum but I just worry he is going to do something like try and explain it to them and see what they think and they are 4 and 2 and there is no way they will understand but I think he could probably manipulate it so the our 4 year old agrees with him. And even if he doesn't how do we explain that he is trans at all without making her just so confused and causing her lots of problems? I know that if I did that then he would be far better in court and would try and make it out like I was transphobic for not accepting this and I don't know I don't think it would work and it would only make it worse. I just don't think he understands at all the problem and he just thinks its no big deal

@Ellie3094, I am so very sorry you are going through this nightmare, especially when pregnant. Do everything you can to protect yourself and your children legally and financially. It is very likely that he will start spending lots of money in support of his desires to transition. You need to prepare yourself. Also, don't let your worries about 50/50 custody force you to stay with him. It may turn out that he doesn't actually want as much time with them as you might think. My ex hasn't seen our children in over six months.

You, and only you, are your children's mother. You are not a lesbian. Remember these things and don't allow him to manipulate and gaslight you or your children.

Morning Ellie, hope you got some sleep.

As for explanations to your DC of what is going on, I would get in there first and give them a really simple explanation appropriate to their age. Just that Daddy feels a bit unhappy and dressing like a lady and having a different name will help him feel better. They really don't need to know anything about the ins and outs of gender theory at this point and push back on any attempts by your H to indoctrinate them. They are just too young to make any sense of this. Though make it clear to them that Daddy is still Daddy, and no boys can't become girls.

I can sense that you are really nervous of displeasing your H. Are you afraid of him? If so you really need to make plans to get out of this situation with your DC, things will only get worse.

If it is just that your H has persuaded you that he is oh so vulnerable and his delicate feelings must be put first, I can tell you that is nonsense. He will NOT kill himself if you refuse to play along with his plans to spend the entire family budget on clothes. Nor will he spontaneously combust if you get his pronouns "wrong " or refuse to pretend he is not your DC's Dad. He is not exempt from normal rules of decency and you and the DC deserve to be considered in this mess. I know it's hard, but please know you are important and don't let him browbeat you.

to you and I hope you find a way to navigate through this. Try to hold onto your sense of self and remember you matter.

[quote WifeOfTiresias]@Ellie3094 , you are not in the same situation as the two lesbian mums though. In their case the child has been brought up from birth with two mums, that is their normal and safely bonded situation.

In your case your H fathered children as a man, brought them up and bonded with them as their Daddy. That was his choice. Now he wants to pull the rug on them and expects them to get their head round a situation where their Dad had disappeared and been replaced by a stranger who is insisting they call them Mum. This is abusive as they know that they only have one Mum - you - but they are being forced to pretend this stranger is also their Mum and their Dad is effectively dead. Hideously traumatic for a young child.

This was the hill I was prepared to die on. No way was I going' to allow my kids to be traumatised like that. I told H that he either accepted the DC would call him Dad or I would leave with the DC and do everything in my power to stop him seeing them.

Remember your H does not get to dictate how things should happen. He is trying to make out that his feelings need to come first but that is not the action of a caring parent. A decent parent always puts their children first. If he can't do that you need to protect them from his toxic bullshit.

Luckily H came to his senses and realised I was right so we have been able to have a successful coparenting relationship.[/quote]
Yes I felt the same. In fact a judge ordered exH to allow DD to call him Daddy as she always done and that he must not ever correct her. He also ordered him to only wear what DD was prepared to accept if she was to start seeing him again and that if DD ever refused that was her choice and he must respect that. The judge made it absolutely clear that the court was ONLY interested in the child's wishes and needs and did not want to hear about his "issues" despite the huge file of "evidence" he had brought with him about his victim status at the hands of society.

@WifeOfTiresias

Morning Ellie, hope you got some sleep.

As for explanations to your DC of what is going on, I would get in there first and give them a really simple explanation appropriate to their age. Just that Daddy feels a bit unhappy and dressing like a lady and having a different name will help him feel better. They really don't need to know anything about the ins and outs of gender theory at this point and push back on any attempts by your H to indoctrinate them. They are just too young to make any sense of this. Though make it clear to them that Daddy is still Daddy, and no boys can't become girls.

I can sense that you are really nervous of displeasing your H. Are you afraid of him? If so you really need to make plans to get out of this situation with your DC, things will only get worse.

If it is just that your H has persuaded you that he is oh so vulnerable and his delicate feelings must be put first, I can tell you that is nonsense. He will NOT kill himself if you refuse to play along with his plans to spend the entire family budget on clothes. Nor will he spontaneously combust if you get his pronouns "wrong " or refuse to pretend he is not your DC's Dad. He is not exempt from normal rules of decency and you and the DC deserve to be considered in this mess. I know it's hard, but please know you are important and don't let him browbeat you.

to you and I hope you find a way to navigate through this. Try to hold onto your sense of self and remember you matter.

Thanks that sounds like a good plan! Do you think I should have this conversation now? I don't know as he hasn't really done anything to change yet and I think he would talk to me first before talking to them about it. I don't know it just is such like I feel I don't know him anymore and I don't know how he will react to anything and I am just confused and as I am so confused myself I am worried I will just say something really bad and offensive as I don't understand it all myself. Ig you're right I just don't know anything and don't know how he will react to anything. Everything just confuses me.

@FooFooFloofyFoof thanks that's very encouraging!

@FooFooFloofyFoof , well done for sticking up for your DD. It's good to hear that this judge wasn't impressed with your H's nonsense and put your DD first. Luckily I didn't have to take things as far as that as H saw sense, but it's comforting to hear that judges have not been taken in by the poor victim rubbish.

@Ellie3094 , it's probably worth telling your H upfront that there are to be no discussions about the situation with your DC until you have both agreed how you will play it. Plus you must both be present. Be very clear that you will not stand for him going behind your back.

The problem I had with H at first was that all the online trans support sites were promoting all this poor me nonsense and encouraging really selfish attitudes. I got quite ground down by it at first but when I finally got angry and said NO he had the sense to realise I wasn't going to budge. There's a lot of nonsense pushed to transitioners about how IMPORTANT they are but don't listen to it. Keep saying I MATTER TOO!

Related thread:

Spousal Exit Clause: Great news for trans widows www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4512852-spousal-exit-clause-great-news-for-trans-widows

It's been said before but the starting point of shared care is rarely actually 50/50 even for older children. Children need stability and to be with the main carer for the majority of the time which is why people end up deciding to go with 60/40 or 70/30 or whatever. Its because it's what's right for the day to day life of those children, not because parents are determined with cutting the week down the middle.

If you do leave some legal advice will really help you to see that you have so many rights and things rarely have to go the way you've been told or are assuming.

I've booked a meeting with a solictor now which is on monday and hopefully that will be good
Thanks everyone for making me realise that it was important

[quote WifeOfTiresias]@Ellie3094 , it's probably worth telling your H upfront that there are to be no discussions about the situation with your DC until you have both agreed how you will play it. Plus you must both be present. Be very clear that you will not stand for him going behind your back.

The problem I had with H at first was that all the online trans support sites were promoting all this poor me nonsense and encouraging really selfish attitudes. I got quite ground down by it at first but when I finally got angry and said NO he had the sense to realise I wasn't going to budge. There's a lot of nonsense pushed to transitioners about how IMPORTANT they are but don't listen to it. Keep saying I MATTER TOO! [/quote]
He has agreed this now that he won't tell the kids without agreeing it with me first which is good. I think he has been fed a lot of that too and is expecting me to support him now and be proud of his 'bravery' so thanks everyone for making me realise that this isn't completely true and not getting bogged down too much in all of that! Although I'm not sure he really has got that and I probably need to be stronger and firmer but I am not really like that usually

Tonight he literally asked me to help him pick out a new name! He said that he knew it would be hard for me having him take on a different identity and he thinls it will be easier for me to accept if I am involved in choosing it and 'embraced his changes'. He was acting like he was so great and sympathetic towards his feelings that he was doing this and it was just like I didn't want to have anything to do with his changes

This is all about boundaries. Some women stay, join in, take part. Some set very clear boundaries on their own involvement, dressing up, telling children, sex. Others prepare to leave. You get to decide how involved in any of this you want to be. You don't collude with behaviours you are uncomfortable with or believe to be unhelpful or harmful to your kids. Many here took a route of not immediately leaving, but agreeing limits and boundaries only to find them rapidly broken. You can say that you don't want to be part of his process, and need time to decide what you want to do. Glad to hear about the solicitor Ellie. You have nothing to lose by finding out where you stand if you stay, or leave, in terms of property, income and children. Hope it helps.

Hi everyone, welcome to the new widows, I'm sorry that you've had to join.

I'm close to being ready to send a breakup letter. I was recently at a wedding, and was asked several times when I was getting married - I couldn't reply never! Then came the discussions about failed relationships and how the family members are so much better off than without their ex. It sort of gave me a little push in the right direction.

I've written a short draft of what I want to say, I'll probably add a bit more before I send it. I just have to get over the anxiety of the reality breaking up. Once I get regular work I can move out, without him.

Sounds like progress misery. Writing stuff down can be really helpful, so you can get your point across. I hope this gives you some confidence for the next step.

[quote TinselAngel]Related thread:

Spousal Exit Clause: Great news for trans widows www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4512852-spousal-exit-clause-great-news-for-trans-widows[/quote]
So important that women's rights and needs are recognised. There's often focus solely on the person itching to transition and no regard or interest in those left behind.

Hello everyone. I've decided that I'm pulling the plug after Easter. He's been chatting constantly on discord with other men like him who live locally, which makes me uncomfortable. He's also been more depressed lately (so much for this being the answer to all his problems which is what he tells himself) which makes things a bit more delicate I suppose, but I'm done shouldering his mental health as well as mine. I have a feeling that he's gaining confidence to be "out" to everyone so that he can try and do the stereotypical woman things like clothes and makeup.

What is the best way to go about this? Is there any way to prepare for it? I know I won't be able to do it in person, so I have a letter to send. Because of our current circumstances I've said that I'm not kicking him out straight away, which could possibly be a bad idea, but hopefully he won't want to stay for too long knowing that I'm unsupportive of him and trans issues. It's so hard dealing with all of this, and having to be the one to actually make the move.

It feels like you’ve made the decision (which is great) but are looking for a nice way of doing it when there really isn’t one.

If you eg give him a months notice, how do you think he would react? I don’t want to advise you to do anything that might make you less safe. Would telling him to leave immediately be more safe for you or less?