Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

[TinselAngel]

Welcome to thread 5. A virtual prize for anyone who can guess the geeky sci fi reference in the thread title.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

In four years we have gone from starting the first thread, to launching a website, to be invited to give evidence to a government inquiry, which is pretty spectacular when you think about it.

Thanks to all the women who have told their stories and particularly to those who have stuck around to help others. Thanks also to @socialworker222 who remains nice cop, to my stern cop.

Do say hello to start the thread off!

Also, I think you have to be prepared to specify what pronouns you want people to use when they are talking to you privately. People generally don't realise the impact it has on us if it's not explained.

@SeasideM- my kids still don't know. But I intend to let them lead and if they don't want him there, he won't be going. Already they see him very little and don't want him invited to many activities.

Good approach Southern; letting the kids lead gets easier and more effective as they get older. You may always be demonized for turning them against him if they make choices that your ex finds unpalatable, but it is very empowering for them. I always let mine know that they could make decisions, change their minds, and not make the same decision as each other, so that this was very individual and flexible and they never felt pressured by anyone else.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4311953-DH-and-women-s-underwear

Related thread.

Personally I wouldn't feel 'more in control' by going shopping and helping AGP ex pick his underwear. I'd just feel like it was yet another way of being dragged into his fantasy.
If the sex becomes all about what he wants, you end up feeling invisible or used. Thats not a relationship.

TinselAngel I think you got an unfair mauling on that thread.

The OP knows something is up and her intuition is telling her something is wrong. But, unfortunately, she is desperate for her marriage to work at the moment. She will make excuses, be kind and forgiving, she will look at ways to compromise her needs to accommodate this fetish.

We have to be kind and gentle with her at the moment, she will need women like us in the future.

Hearing all the lame excuses for this AGPs behaviour is beyond hard and must give all the women on this thread some very bad PTSD, especially as they have all been through it before.

I would suggest we gently give this women space and give no more advice. The only help she wants is to be told that everything is going to be fine and nothing bad is going to happen. She wants reassurance. Its the beginning of a long and difficult road for her, but at least she can acknowledge she is not happy with her husbands compulsion.

I feel sympathy for her and her loss. But as my ex is celebrated for changing her name and gender, I have the right to redefine myself as well. And I choose to refer to myself as a trans widow.

Exactly

So why on earth wouldn't they mention dead naming etc.

Sorry to post it. Its so insensitively written. But I thought, better to know than not, maybe.

It's ok for them to identify as a widow though even though they weren't married

There's a lot of these attention seeking articles about at the moment BTW. I'm just trying to rise above them. I'd like this thread to be the one place trans widows don't have to justify themselves.

I've decided I'm completely ok with being labeled a transphobe because yes I am afraid of this movement and what it is doing.

Sorry Tinsel

I've asked for it to be deleted.

Sorry you strong amazing women.

I posted on the DH underwear thread but asked for my post to be deleted, and I’m thankful to whatever admin agreed to do so, I shared some of my experience and felt like the OP and supporters were a bit mocking of the idea that fetishising women’s underwear might be part of something bigger, as if we all want other peoples marriages to fail.

I’m struggling with my ex right now. He is arguing about money. I suspect he has a voice in his ear telling him I’m greedy. I wonder if that voice knows of the fucking damage he did to me and our kids, financially, emotionally.

He’s certainly been generous with his maintenance payments (we split early 2019) but he earns a lot and we agreed it was about the children not missing out.

My health isn’t always great and some days I want to tell him to fucking do it all then and see how he gets on.

Oh dear Southern, your post has been deleted just as I was pondering how to reply to it.

Experiences of women on this thread vary hugely with regards to our kids relationships with their Dads, eg from my DD who still has a good relationship with her Dad and spends time with him, to Social's, whose ex didn't seem to have any room for his kids in his stunning and brave new life.

Another Trans Widow of my acquaintance tells all other TW she speaks to that they must never let their kids see their Dads to prevent them being psychologically damaged (she said it to me too). This isn't an approach that I agree with.

You are very angry and I remember being where you are now. I said some things to my ex about the potential consequences of his transition on DD to some extent as a last ditch attempt to stop him, which whilst they were all true, I'm not all that proud looking back of how I went about it. Particularly because it was futile- there was no way he was going to change his mind.

(Will continue in another post as I'm on my phone)

TinselAngel when I first saw that thread I recommend she check out this thread and that you would have some very helpful advice for her.

I am truly sorry to have got you involved in that. I took the OP at face value and didn't know how it would transpire. I do learn from my mistakes though and I'll never do that again. I hope you're okay today. I think by giving partners and children a voice you are doing something really important and I'm just so sorry for the abuse I invited to you 💐

This advice is based on how things are in the UK so it may or may be applicable to where you are, but I have to warn you that you need to be careful.

Here, in using the sort of language you use to describe your ex, whilst understandable due to feelings running high, I'd worry you'd be risking accusations of domestic abuse and parental alienation if there were any family court proceedings with regards to the residence of your children.

Please don't think I'm accusing you of those things, I'm not. But here, the definition of domestic abuse WRT trans people has a very low bar (eg refusing to affirm their gender identity!) I don't know how far this definition (made up by trans pressure groups), has made it into the courts but I'd advise any woman to be cautious.

It's time to start thinking strategically with your head rather than your heart to try to get the best outcome for yourself and your children

Last post obviously also directed at @SouthernTW

@TheWeeDonkey

TinselAngel when I first saw that thread I recommend she check out this thread and that you would have some very helpful advice for her.

I am truly sorry to have got you involved in that. I took the OP at face value and didn't know how it would transpire. I do learn from my mistakes though and I'll never do that again. I hope you're okay today. I think by giving partners and children a voice you are doing something really important and I'm just so sorry for the abuse I invited to you 💐

No worries TheWeeDonkey, several women contacted me about the thread.

It's also worth pointing out for lurkers that what SouthernTW said would be considered normal and allowable elsewhere on MN (eg in Relationships) for a woman to say about her ex, it's only the trans issue that makes it deleteable.

Yes, @TinselAngel. It was all said in anger. And I know it's futile.

Grateful I live here where those circumstances do not apply. I have already told my children that their relationship with their father is completely up to them and I will support them however they want those to proceed. But I know my children and I've got an inkling at their response. I've been pretty spot-on so far.

My children are too young right now, but I dread future conversations about it. He has said that he doesn't want to screw them up, but by deciding to transition I think it's inevitable. I mean, it's screwed me up, why wouldn't it be traumatic for little kids?

He's still too scared to come out or present female or anything yet, but he asked me the other day if I would go to a clothes shop to buy things for him, instead of him buying things online. When asked why he couldn't he got depressed and said that it was too embarrassing. He buys makeup and hair stuff online, but never uses them. I see him watching makeup tutorials on YouTube. He listens to weird subliminals which are apparently for feminisation (no idea how they're even supposed to work). He couldn't watched the woman's Olympic gymnastics because of dysphoria. When filling out the census he asked if his name would be on every question, and got depressed when I said yes. He couldn't even tell our son what his middle name is because of dysphoria. I often catch him looking at pictures of women in swimwear, athletic gear, or fetish stuff because that's what he hopes to look like (it'll never happen). It bothers me so much that it just seems like hair/makeup/clothes = woman.

Last week I told him that I thought our relationship was pretty toxic at the moment, and he went to bed to cry for an hour. I'm beyond feeling bad about it. I'm so depressed, I've given in and have an appointment for the doctor to get antidepressants. Feel like a huge failure, therapy didn't really do much. Need a job, but mental health is prohibitive. The worst thing is that he's not a narcissist abuser, and generally a nice guy, so it's not that easy to just kick him out.

he asked me the other day if I would go to a clothes shop to buy things for him, instead of him buying things online

For the love of God don't be guilted into facilitating him, you're not his carer.

I relate to a lot of what you say, it is difficult to make the decision to leave when you can still see the traces of the kind, funny person that you met and that you still love, but there comes a point where you have to put your own mental health first