Caitlyn Jenner OPPOSES trans girls competing in girls sport

[hm246]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9533463/Caitlyn-Jenner-says-OPPOSES-trans-girls-competing-girls-sport.html

@toocold54

Should also be noted that women's hurdles are lower than men's to compensate for height difference. Winner is over 6 ft.

Some women (born female) are over 6ft too though.

Yes, but women over six foot are outliers in a way that men who are six foot are not.

In 100 men, you would get many more men over 6’ than women. So in sports where height is an advantage, if you make it mixed sex, then men get an advantage. A woman would have to be exceptional to meet the standard of a fairly average man.

You realise that your argument is to have all sports mixed sex, don’t you? If the differences between the sexes aren’t significant, then why would we bother at all?

The hurdle height in the women's contests has been set, considering the standard range in height across the female population.

The hurdle height in the men's contests has been set, considering the standard range in height across the male population.

Although there are women over six foot, I invite you to consider this proposition: if there was a rule that all people standing for parliament had to be over six foot, would it be unfair on women? After all, there are women over six foot, and there are men under six foot.

There are countless differences between the sexes in things like vo2 Max, hip angle and the effect that has on gait, body fat, grip strength, hand size...

For as long as sport is segregated by sex, sex must matter. If a sport wants to segregate by height, or lactic acid production, or lung capacity, or fast twitch muscle fibres, then it can, but it is likely that those sports will then become male dominated.

if a sport wants to segregate by................it can, but it is likely that those sports will then become male dominated.

Not just likely.... will definitely become male dominated!!!!!

www.livescience.com/59289-why-men-run-faster-than-women.html

People online are calling CJ a hypocrite because she plays golf with women

Playing a social non-contact sport like golf with women is a very different matter to CJ playing a sport against them.

Just want to draw attention to this:

High school boys in 2016 did better than the Olympian women's athlete, who actually set a world record for women that year.

Sex mattered in sport and women only sport was accepted as perfectly sensible until male people wanted it.

The endless splitting of hairs on how much it affects female athletes negatively is merely establishing some temporary boundaries on just how much grace they will be permitted in the providing of their sports to male entrants.

The bottom line is quite simply: did female athletes go through all their training, their efforts, their struggles, to provide emotional care and inclusive support to a male athlete?

Look at your daughter. Are you prepared to tell her that by accident of being born female, her ambitions, her dreams, her feelings, her needs, must always come second to her primary purpose of serving male interests?

And then explain too that no, sex isn't supposed to exist or matter, and yet hers does. This is wholly sex based thinking underpinning all of this, complete with the same hierarchy. There is no respect for female born people anywhere in it.

People online are calling CJ a hypocrite because she plays golf with women

Its not unusual to discover some hypocrisy in those male TS who claim a moderate position.

I don't know how people can buy the argument that somehow other physical differences matter more than the divide between the sexes when it comes to sport.

If that were the case wouldn't we see a considerable entree of the most talented women into male sport? Maybe not a female Premiership footballer but playing in the lower leagues? Or a woman setting a time that would qualify for a men's semi final? And yet you don't.

Laura Muir's British 1500m record 3.55.22 would rank her 220th among British men in 2019 (last full year of athletics competition)

If we take the 10th fastest British woman ever at 1500 (so, still very very good) we see that Kirsty Wade ran 4.00.73 - a time beaten in 2019 by 413 British men

thepowerof10.info/rankings/rankinglist.aspx?event=1500&agegroup=ALL&sex=M&year=2019

in every athletics discipline men run faster, throw longer, jump further and higher - it's not even remotely close

Records also show that this huge discrepancy between the sexes begins well before puberty.

The bottom line is quite simply: did female athletes go through all their training, their efforts, their struggles, to provide emotional care and inclusive support to a male athlete?

This.

In fact, that whole post!

Excellent post Redapplewreath

Does anyone know if there are any athletic/physical sports records that women hold over men? I have a vague idea there might be a distance one but it's an exception that proves the rule.

Paula Radcliffe’s World Record Marathon time is 2:15:25.

At the Rio Olympics in 2016, 24 of the 139 men to complete the course ran a faster time than this record.

The winner of the Women’s Marathon at the same Games (Jemima Jelagat Sumgong) would have finished in 89th position in the men’s race, a full 16 mins after the winner.

When you look at the figures in isolation like that it really drives it home.

@Binglebong

Does anyone know if there are any athletic/physical sports records that women hold over men? I have a vague idea there might be a distance one but it's an exception that proves the rule.

Are you thinking of some of the ultra-endurance events?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-49284389

@ErrolTheDragon

When I play golf it's with mixed groups. But it's mainly for fun, and the skill levels are all over the place anyway. Most of us objectively suck. So sex differences are pretty irrelevant. For many golf is competition against themselves anyway.

I don't know how the handicap system works in golf but presumably that helps to make it a social sport for players of different ability?

Absolutely. I think it probably still doesn't totally account for the power difference between male and female players, but that's not so important in recreational games.

@Binglebong

Does anyone know if there are any athletic/physical sports records that women hold over men? I have a vague idea there might be a distance one but it's an exception that proves the rule.

Apparently discus is one but the women’s discus is smaller and lighter

I happened across a useful post here comparing various records across multiple sports and distances

qr.ae/pGh5qY

There is something slightly amusing about the idea that the first trans governor would be a Republican.

Thank you Caitlin Jenner

People online are calling CJ a hypocrite because she plays golf with women

If it's just a friendly game, then there is no hypocrisy.

If it's real competition, it's hypocrisy, but being a hypocrite doesn't make your statement wrong.