Lesbian Visibility Week

[ASugarr]

As Lesbian Visibility Week comes to an end, I want to make a quick reminder that
ALL LESBIANS ARE VALID!

Cisgender and Transgender women can be lesbians. Transgender men who date women don't consider themselves lesbians. All Lesbians deserve visibility!

Additionally, many have stated that they don't wish to date transgender people. That's fine! Just because someone is in the same dating pool doesn't mean you MUST be attracted to them. Plus genital preference is also totally fine! But don't forget, trans women are women so please do not degrade them just because you personally don't wish to date them.

Plus, let's continue to educate one another on the important information. Like preventing STI's as a lesbian, domestic abuse in lesbian relationships and how to deal with that, safe and consentual sex between lesbians. This is what we need to be educating young lesbians and bisexual women on.

Have a fabulous long weekend all 🤍🌈

Someone else pointed out that HMHQ have a policy that more than a certain amount of deletions in a rolling six week period will lead to a suspension with a discussion then taking place as to whether the poster will be allowed back.

There have been many posters who have fallen to this (particularly on deliberately goady posts). Why does this not seem to apply to some posters?

How is your brother a transman if they were never a girl?

What's racist about saying women aren't a subject of their adjectives? Are you saying black women can't be called women? But racist if you ask me.

Honestly this thread is like being with my 9 and 13 year olds. She did that, he did that, she did something 6 months ago which I am going to bring up now to not really prove a point. I have a headache today as a result of them two going on at each other, and then I come here and it is more the same.

Oh Christ knows @RufustheBadgeringReindeer*

But i agreed with it 😩😩😩

Now i just look like im agreeing with nothing 😩

😀

Yas, Delphinium! Always good to get more sisters onboard. I'll get your uniform out to you ASAP!

Good god, Sugar, can’t you just leave off burbling about your tedious brother in a thread purportedly about lesbian visibility?

@Merftastic

How is your brother a transman if they were never a girl?

I'd like to know this too. My trans man friend was a little girl. He was born a girl and grew up. As a girl. He now identifies as a man but is biologically, and legally female.

@Nodal

Yep. I'm a woman. That's it. Literally.

Me too.

We’re not a designated subset of “woman” just because “trans woman / transwoman” has appeared to make us budge over.

@UnkindlyMay

Good god, Sugar, can’t you just leave off burbling about your tedious brother in a thread purportedly about lesbian visibility?

There is also this.

Asugarr 's sibling is not a lesbian. She's been at endless pains to point this out.

So not relevant to this discussion at all.

Here's a badger in your badgering honour

Thank you 😔

@blackwhiteandstripey

But it's incorrect. My brother was never a girl.

Oceania was at war with Eurasia; therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia.

Yep.

Well this has gone spectacularly downhill, though I don't think this thread was started in good faith to begin with.

I'm sure MNHQ are keeping a close eye on what is being shared here and I imagine a fair bit is being shared elsewhere 🎣

As Lesbian Visibility Week draws to a close I just want to share my very favourite video from my very favourite lesbian.

As Karen would say, stay strong ladies.

Is it time for a round of "I am Spartacus/I am a Woman"?

So yet another thread about Lesbian Visibility Week has been made into a thread where the OP lectures women on who is and isn’t a lesbian and uses it as a way to grandstand centring males.

Well done OP. I think the readers of this thread have been well educated by now.

Now, did we get any actual evidence on what the trans activist community is doing to prevent further abuse of lesbians who are same sex attracted as I, and others, have asked for?

What programs have been launched, what prominent activists have released statements denouncing the behaviour and calling everyone to denounce it? What statements have been released by organizations to build awareness that this violent and homophobic behaviour is simply not acceptable?

Anything?

Because, that would have been a great initiative for Lesbian Visibility Week. Not just a ‘well we should continue to discuss it’ and wearing of badges. But some specific concrete action to stop that behaviour right there!!!

And significantly, the very lack of this evidence is very telling and also educational to readers of this thread.

Out of interest, doesn't Mumsnet have a policy that more than 3 deletions in six weeks means your account is deleted? Certain posters on this thread have had multiple deletions.

Maybe @ASugarr can confirm her affirmation for female same sex (not gender) relationships during Lesbian Week?

I think asugarrs thinking is (and asugarr please correct me if I'm wrong).

Man woman girl boy are gender descriptors nothing to do with sex
Her brother was born female and so was assumed to be/ treated as a girl growing up
Inside her brother was always a boy and never felt like a girl, never was one. But was female.
Hence the desire to transition to get them perceived/ treated as a boy/ man, to match their internal gender

From the point of view that man woman girl boy are nothing more than gender roles, that is logically consistent.

The gap comes when most people in the world use man woman boy girl in whatever their language is, to refer to male/ female juveniles or adults.

I do think that if there is to be no acknowledgement or conversation about the experiences of a trans person growing up being treated as a boy/ girl, when that was not how they felt inside, will be a huge loss. Many trans people talk about it as part of their life journey and the sort of things that happened that did not fit how they felt etc. In particular some of the things I've read from transmen who are perceived as male, in the differences in how they are treated, have been eye opening.

I think this is something that should not be seen as verboten. It's invisibilising a lot of the life history, trauma and insights that come from the accounts.

Lost I think the thread started with their affirmation relating to lesbian visibility week didn't it.

I've asked the same question above. I think the OP has had more than 3 deletions on this thread alone.

It is very common for white people, especially white Americans for some reason, to make a reference to black women when arguing for the inclusion of white transwomen.

When I first encountered this line, I was flabbergasted. It made no sense! It was like being told 2+2=5, because 2+2=4.

Gradually, as I encountered this line over and over again, the origins of it became clear.

It rests on two subconscious presumptions: the first is a eurocentric ideal of what a woman 'should' look like- white, and probably with straight hair, and conforming to Western Beauty Standards.

The second presumption is that what makes someone a woman is not whether she is an adult human female, but how closely she meets the Western, eurocentric ideals of female beauty.

People making the comparison are implicitly arguing that if we can count black women as women when they're not white, why not white transwomen, BECAUSE they're white.

In short, it rests on horrific racism.

The poster is on other social media saying that trans support is deleted and silenced on MN.

Has asked them to shut down all discussions about it on MN.

A ban would be 'proof'.

As ever, MNHQ are in a very tricky position with this.

Always remember that they don't have to host these discussions and the shit they must get for it must be constant. I'm grateful to them as ever.