Lesbian Visibility Week

[ASugarr]

As Lesbian Visibility Week comes to an end, I want to make a quick reminder that
ALL LESBIANS ARE VALID!

Cisgender and Transgender women can be lesbians. Transgender men who date women don't consider themselves lesbians. All Lesbians deserve visibility!

Additionally, many have stated that they don't wish to date transgender people. That's fine! Just because someone is in the same dating pool doesn't mean you MUST be attracted to them. Plus genital preference is also totally fine! But don't forget, trans women are women so please do not degrade them just because you personally don't wish to date them.

Plus, let's continue to educate one another on the important information. Like preventing STI's as a lesbian, domestic abuse in lesbian relationships and how to deal with that, safe and consentual sex between lesbians. This is what we need to be educating young lesbians and bisexual women on.

Have a fabulous long weekend all 🤍🌈

'momth' is, of course, a literal...

But will you still believe he's literally a man if he detransitions and becomes a lesbian? Or is he only a literal man for as long as he says he is? That's not very factual.

I'm glad he's happy and hope that continues, one way or another.

Ok ASugarr, I have a question for you.

I'm trans and I've fully surgically transitioned. I've had FFS and a breast aug. I die tomorrow and am buried in a dress (unlikely as I don't "do" dresses but we'll go with it). My headstone has my female name on it.

In 500 years, my headstone has gone and some futuristic "Time Team" style programme digs me up, and due to the passage of time, all that's left are my bones. No coffin, no clothes. Just bones.

We'll pretend they can't instantly sex me due to the shape of my pelvis or any other features (perhaps a dog has dug up my pelvis and had it away for a tasty treat), but they take me to a lab to find out what sex I am.

What is their conclusion?

But will you still believe he's literally a man if he detransitions and becomes a lesbian? Or is he only a literal man for as long as he says he is? That's not very factual.

That's exactly how some people are using the words man and woman. They believe that to be a woman all that's needed is to say "I am a woman" and to be a man you just need to say "I am a man".

So a female adult can be a lesbian woman one day and a straight man the next, assuming their partner identifies consistently as a woman for those two days, regardless of whether their partner is an adult male or an adult female.

This is obviously ridiculous to the vast majority of people who use the word woman to mean an adult human female and lesbian to mean a woman who is sexually attracted to other women.

You can’t be more or less of a man or woman than anyone else (unless you mean physically, as in height or girth I suppose- I am less of a woman than a 6 foot woman as I am not even 5 foot tall. There is less of me.)

It’s like me saying my cat is more of a cat than anyone else here. That would sound nonsensical.

We say “I’m more of a man/woman than you’ll ever be” because we (as a society) decide what qualities make men:women. So a man who hits women is “less” of a man than one who doesn’t. Because we judge it unmanly to hit women. But being a despicable piece of shit doesn’t actually mean they are less of or more of either sex- because whatever your interests are, whatever your values are has not bearing on your status as a man or woman.

Once again we see the tiresome pissing over language and meaning.
Expecting lesbians to sleep with men is pretty rapey even if you try and dress it up.

@blackwhiteandstripey

We're never going to get anywhere with *@ASugarr* because she thinks that male and female people have xy or xx chromosomes respectively and that's what makes them male or female. However, she thinks that has no relevance to whether or not they are men or women. Not whether or not the identify as men or women, but whether or not they factually are men or women. How they dress and present etc also has no bearing on whether or not the are men or woman.

Whether someone is a "man" or "woman" is entirely up to the individual to decide.

So we will all forever be talking at cross purposes.

What is interesting though, is that @Shizuku doesn't agree with this. As a trans person @Shizuku believes that they were literally born female, always have been female and always will be. Despite the fact they are a transwoman.

@ASugarr and @Shizuku would either of you like to weigh in on why you think so differently about this? One as a trans ally and one as a trans person?

Thanks.

We are never going to get anywhere with people who don't understand reality.

And reality here is that a lesbian is a female human sexually attracted to other female humans.
Here's to you ladies

We are never going to get anywhere with people who don't understand reality.

Certainly not with people who are so heavily invested in believing a destabilized version of reality that suits their own personal situation, whether that is their own identity, a loved ones, their career may depend on this version of reality for instance.

We are never going to get anywhere with people who don't understand reality.

Oh I think they understand it perfectly but they just push it to one side and ignore it because to do otherwise would mean them having to admit to the multiple harms caused by their narrative and they won't do that. At all costs they must keep up the pretence of being the most caring even when the harm they do is staring them in their face they look away, they care not, they merely stick a little grey heart on it.

Or a badge on.

We are never going to get anywhere with people who don't understand reality.

This, all day long, although I don't think there's a lack of understanding so much as a lack of acceptance.

I agree completely black

You know, some days it feels like I'm living in a Douglas Adams novel.

Most likely you've all encountered a transgender person without even realizing.
We realise and we know - we always know. What we do with the information depends on the situation, but we always know. Physical appearance is only part of it, pheromones impact how we know as well.

Biological sex is different to gender.
Well, yes. Biological sex is a reality and gender is made up stereotypes that a person can choose to utilise or reject. Acknowledging any gender woo does not remove the irrefutable facts of biology.

Being female doesn't make you automatically a woman
Do you actually believe what you've said? Do you honestly believe you can deny what exists and has existed for thousands of years because you think or wish that what you've said is true?

WIth those throwaway (and such comments should be consigned to the bin for eternity) words you are dismissing the existence of 51% of the population of the world. You belittle women with such comments, and when repeated by someone who is a natal woman one wonders what put such misogyny in place (although breathtaking naïveté is part of it).

You've also claimed that - and I paraphrase - a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman. By now you're old enough to know that one cannot use the word one wishes to define within the definition.

@blackwhiteandstripey - look we all know my brother is actually a girl/female, because that's how he was born. But he likes to live this way and is so much happier now and so, out of respect and kindness, we happily go along with this. We know he is not a man, but for all intents and purposes he lives like he is as best he can and that makes him happy."

I can understand that.

@HamsterV2, is this a line of thinking that you, as a transwoman understand?

I think it's a little more nuanced than that, but you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. I'm one of these "awful transmedicalists" that believe that gender dysphoria is a necessary component of being transsexual, so for me "likes to live this way" was more born out of necessity than choice.

"As best you can" is a pretty accurate decription, because even after psychs, hormones, surgical interventions the gender dysphoria never fully goes away. Life just becomes liveable and you can actually function, so yes I'd definitely go with that.

I'm pretty laid back though and don't demand that people see me as a women or use female pronouns etc. I certainly don't demand it - I'm a firm believer in treating people how you want to be treated. I just want to live my life with the minimum of fuss tbh.

@blackwhiteandstripey

I could even understand *@ASugarr* if you said "look we all know my brother is actually a girl/female, because that's how he was born. But he likes to live this way and is so much happier now and so, out of respect and kindness, we happily go along with this. We know he is not a man, but for all intents and purposes he lives like he is as best he can and that makes him happy."

I can understand that.

@HamsterV2, is this a line of thinking that you, as a transwoman understand?

I think most people can absolutely understand this, sympathise with it, and get on board with it. What they cannot understand is the insistence, like @Shizuku said, that a transwoman was born a female and always was a female. Because if that's the case, what are you changing? What's the "trans" part. And people cannot understand your insistence ASugarr that your brother is in actual objective fact a man, when he is not. He is a transman.

And there is nothing wrong with your brother being a transman.

No. My brother is a man. It's that simple.

@ChewtonRoad

Most likely you've all encountered a transgender person without even realizing. We realise and we know - we always know. What we do with the information depends on the situation, but we always know. Physical appearance is only part of it, pheromones impact how we know as well.

Biological sex is different to gender.
Well, yes. Biological sex is a reality and gender is made up stereotypes that a person can choose to utilise or reject. Acknowledging any gender woo does not remove the irrefutable facts of biology.

Being female doesn't make you automatically a woman
Do you actually believe what you've said? Do you honestly believe you can deny what exists and has existed for thousands of years because you think or wish that what you've said is true?

WIth those throwaway (and such comments should be consigned to the bin for eternity) words you are dismissing the existence of 51% of the population of the world. You belittle women with such comments, and when repeated by someone who is a natal woman one wonders what put such misogyny in place (although breathtaking naïveté is part of it).

You've also claimed that - and I paraphrase - a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman. By now you're old enough to know that one cannot use the word one wishes to define within the definition.

"We realise and we know - we always know."

You should probably read this:

katymontgomerie.medium.com/no-you-cant-always-tell-a5967cc55761

"pheromones impact how we know as well."

One of the first things that changes on estrogen is your smell.

[quote blackwhiteandstripey]@ASugarr

Why do you give one sentence responses like this?

You must see why people struggle to understand where you're coming from and it won't help your cause to be so flippant.

Why won't you engage with what people are trying to discuss? Meet us half way. [/quote]
There's nothing to struggle with. My brother is a man. Nothing else. Not a transman, not a girl, not a female. A man. That's all. It's really not that hard to understand .