BBC article on Elliot Page

[Sittinonthesand]

I don’t know anything about Page - I’ve only seen the name in the context of being trans, but this article contains several worrying/misleading half truths:

• talks about ‘top surgery’ without explaining that it = mastectomy (refers to ‘removal of breast tissue instead).
• talks about surgery as being ‘life saving’ without explaining why.
• says that trans children aren’t being allowed to play sport and this will lead some to die - doesn’t explain why they might die, doesn’t say that they can play sport but maybe not with the sex they’d like.

@IvyTwines2 are you saying that you genuinely can't tell the difference between playing a role that is clearly a fictional character and appearing on the red carpet as yourself?

🤯

Has he said he's a victim, or vulnerable

You are assuming that what someone says about themselves is the be all and end all......but that is not the case, because none of us exists in a vacuum entirely of our own formation.

People make judgments and observations about other people all of the time, that do not necessarily accord with that person's self perception.

People have perceived Elliot Page, during the interview, to be fragile and vulnerable, because he comes across that way. I think you can give credit people for being able to sense vulnerability in others.

@forfucksakenett you don't have much chance to be yourself on the red carpet. You are dressed by a team, your movements are choreographed, photographers quite literally call the shots as you walk, you go through a ceremony whose intricate patterns and speech format have been laid out for decades, and which those entering the industry and aspiring to a high profile must surely understand is part and parcel of the job. If anything an actor probably has more opportunity bring their individuality and personality to a film performance than a red carpet, especially if they are the star.

Elliot Page: "I transitioned and now I feel much happier."

Transphobes: "This is absolutely disgusting."

Elliot Page: "I transitioned and now I feel much happier

Except he didn't appear to be much happier. Nobody's has used the word disgusting, but there are people here who known vulnerability when they see it. And he looked thin to the point of illness.

Surely you could see that?

This culture of public self exposure on mass/social media or TV is not very edifying and certainly does nothing to bolster the esteem or wellness of those who participate. When you expose yourself in such an intimate way for millions of strangers to see, I think it can only exacerbate any issues you have.

@Shizuku

Elliot Page: "I transitioned and now I feel much happier."

Transphobes: "This is absolutely disgusting."

This is twitter standard analysis, hilarious!

"This culture of public self exposure on mass/social media or TV is not very edifying and certainly does nothing to bolster the esteem or wellness of those who participate. When you expose yourself in such an intimate way for millions of strangers to see, I think it can only exacerbate any issues you have."

Is that the advice you would give to Keira Bell?

[quote IvyTwines2]@forfucksakenett you don't have much chance to be yourself on the red carpet. You are dressed by a team, your movements are choreographed, photographers quite literally call the shots as you walk, you go through a ceremony whose intricate patterns and speech format have been laid out for decades, and which those entering the industry and aspiring to a high profile must surely understand is part and parcel of the job. If anything an actor probably has more opportunity bring their individuality and personality to a film performance than a red carpet, especially if they are the star.[/quote]
I don't doubt that it's not your most natural self but you are still presenting yourself as yourself. Jeeso. It's completely different to playing a part of a fictional character.

The suggestion that his panic attack was somehow a lie? Inauthentic? Not understandable because he's an actor used to playing a part? Smacks of desperation to somehow prove him wrong. I just don't get it.

@DerryWitch

Re this “uncomfortable in a dress” business. I’m always struck by photos of men and women together at black tie events. The women are at least 50% naked. Usually arms, maybe legs, back, shoulders, some chest. Dress likely to be body-hugging. Now picture a man in that photo with short sleeves, no sleeves, or in shorts. Never! Only hands and face on display. I always feel exposed in any kind of evening dress or cocktail dress. That’s what they are designed to do. Whereas men wear a version of their normal clothes, maybe with added cummerbund to hold the belly.

This is so true.

I don't doubt that it's not your most natural self but you are still presenting yourself as yourself. Jeeso. It's completely different to playing a part of a fictional character.

That's a very good point, couldn't quite put my finger on why that comment had me scratching my head, but think you've nailed it there!
As you say when you're acting, it's a fictional character.
It's not "you."
Completely different scenario.

variety.com/2020/tv/news/elliot-page-umbrella-academy-netflix-1234843387/

“Trans actors can and do play both trans and cisgender characters. I’m sure Elliot will continue to be brilliant in Umbrella Academy and many different types of roles in the future,” Nick Adams, director of transgender media at GLAAD, told Variety.

Except cis actors are made to grovel for playing trans characters.
Hmmm.

Except cis actors are made to grovel for playing trans characters.
Hmmm

Thought we weren't to use the c word on here?
I'd have thought that someone who was actually trans would be more "authentic" (for want of a better word) at playing a trans character as they'd know what it was like whereas someone who wasn't wouldn't have that?
Rather than put it as "grovelling"
I can't remember where I saw it but in an interview I saw someone described when an actor plays the part of a trans person (think it was B Cumberbatch?) it would be better played by someone who was actually trans as opposed to someone who would go home and go back to being their non trans self.
Kind of paints them as just a costume can take on and off?
Rather than being themselves.
Which I though made sense.
Hopefully someone knows what the heck I'm referring too lol

to not too

@Quaagars

I don't doubt that it's not your most natural self but you are still presenting yourself as yourself. Jeeso. It's completely different to playing a part of a fictional character.

That's a very good point, couldn't quite put my finger on why that comment had me scratching my head, but think you've nailed it there!
As you say when you're acting, it's a fictional character.
It's not "you."
Completely different scenario.

But what is 'you'?

People are not necessarily themselves when they're at work (I certainly wasn't when I worked in education).

Someone on the red carpet is presenting themself as a persona, a character, not themself.

They could decide to present themself as their real self, and the film company could be forced to accept this - or the actor/actress could be pushed out.

Is it all right for someone without firefighting experience to play a firefighter? What about actors playing serial killers? Should actual murderers be cast? At what point does “acting” mean “being another version of yourself” instead of “interpreting a character using imagination”?

Is that the advice you would give to Keira Bell

Kiera Bell did not go 'full on mass media' when transitioning, like most others she was not in the public eye. The ensuing court case became somewhat of a public spectacle - by necessity, but it was hardly mass media/prime time TV.

Kiera has paid a hefty price for her struggles in life, and that includes having to go through the ordeal of a court case, and now another.

At what point does “acting” mean “being another version of yourself” instead of “interpreting a character using imagination”

If people can't differentiate between acting the part of someone else and the fact of being themselves, I don't really know how to respond to that to be honest!
Whether you put on a dress, make up and high heels as you feel you need a persona for work, it is still "you" underneath.
Acting the part of someone else for an acting role is completely different.
Unless people seriously have no concept of being themselves, don't know what "you" means?
As well as thinking being trans or not being trans all boils down to what clothes you like to wear?

@Shizuku

Elliot Page: "I transitioned and now I feel much happier."

Transphobes: "This is absolutely disgusting."

Can you quote who has said this?

Other than yourself of course.

Is it all right for someone without firefighting experience to play a firefighter? What about actors playing serial killers? Should actual murderers be cast? At what point does “acting” mean “being another version of yourself” instead of “interpreting a character using imagination”?

I do find it interesting when people like Russel T Davies says only gay actors should play gay characters.

So only straight actors should play straight roles? In which case Russel is doing an awful lot of actors out of jobs, as there are more straight roles than gay ones. Which will have the effect of forcing some gay actors back in the closet, so they can audition for a wider range of parts than “gay best friend” or whatever.

Elliot Page: "I transitioned and now I feel much happier." The interview shown does not demonstrate someone who is content, let alone happy.

Without wishing to take on the Goldwater Rule, Page looks like someone who has had a major procedure with the intent to reduce dysphoria, and is now realising that the change has done no such thing.

As well, how can one claim to "live their authentic or true self" by denying reality and expecting others to agree with it? Cosmetic changes and new clothes do not affect the truth and inevitability of biology.

People are saying vulnerable a lot.

Vulnerable is not a synonym for disgusting.

Interesting that anyone would think that.

Vulnerable is not a synonym for disgusting

Interesting that anyone would think that.

Where has anyone said that it is a synonym for disgusting?
They haven't anywhere.
If you're meaning shizukus post, I took it to mean that the "this is absolutely disgusting" comment was referring to people who are against Elliot transitioning and that he should just leave alone etc?

It was in reference to this bit
Elliot Page: "I transitioned and now I feel much happier."

Not using the word vulnerable, people are seriously starting to twist stuff now.
I thought it was perfectly clear what they meant!

@Hangingover

I agree that Page did not come across as someone who has been 'liberated at last'.

Who says someone "liberated" has to be shiny and bouncy and joyous? Do people not usually emerge from massive upheaval a bit delicate and nervous?

They did address it at the end of the interview when Oprah uses the term "in progress". And I think what we were seeing felt real rather than PR'd to shit. I mean if you really listen the the life-long trauma he describes about feeling like a stranger in his own body, then factor in the fact he's making this change in the public eye, and factor in how sensitive a lot of artists/actors are anyway (even the veteran ones, I speak from experience on this) I think it's totally understandable we didn't see a "finished product" so to speak. It makes sense to me. It's a huge, huge thing - not something most of us can properly imagine. I think the issue of trans people in sports and ages of treatment and women's spaces etc are a very real issues btw but on a basic humanity level Im really glad Elliott has done the right thing for him. I was really quite shocked at the level of pain he'd obviously carried for so long. I'm going to reach out to my trans friend today and check in with them. They always present everything as being smiley and sunny but I bet it isn't all the time.

Ok but he'll never really be treated as male. Because he isn't. And I truly feel sorry for him.

@Quaagars

Page’s hair is still longer than mine. And longer than that of plenty of other women I know.

Not sure what hair length has to do with anything, since when does that have anything to do with whether you're trans or not
Unless you mean would look "more like a man" (whatever that means) if he cut his hair?
'Cos if so pretty sure that men can have long hair and look good with it too.

The problem is that when you remove the concept of biology as the main indicator of your gender then all you are left with are stereotypes. If you had a completely androgynous body then people will look at clothes, hair, make up to indicate the gender.

Of course men have long hair, or course women have short hair. But if someone wanted to make a woman look like a man then the first thing they would do would be to cut their hair short.