[quote R0wantrees]from current thread discussing Guardian coverage of the interview
NiceGerbil made important points which, in my opinion need wider consideration,
"The thing that has leapt out at me for ages around this, and continues to do so. In brief.. (I'll try!)
An artful lot of things with this seem to be about breasts.
Binders/ mastectomies
For males, the surgery that seems to be the main one is implants. For those on hormones like that person in the ? Telegraph, their chest growing is inordinately exciting.
What I know is that
Growth of breasts whatever age you are is the sudden point at which men start looking at you differently. Society starts treating you differently. It's when the leering starts and the ideas like you need to cover up (unspoken, because your own growing body puts you at risk). For right or wrong, that's the message. And the breasts are the most obvious thing.
Men in our society utterly fetishise breasts. That what would you do if you were opposite sex for the day, the first thing lots of men would do is play with their tits.
Breasts are to feed babies but that's really gross to much of society because they're for show for men, not for feeding.
Loads of girls have forever tried to hide their chest shape to stop the way it means they are treated.
Breast ironing is a horrendous thing that is done with the aim of holding off the behaviour of men towards girls once their bodies start developing.
So we have.
Girls especially when breasts start growing and through maybe secondary school age actively wishing they would go away.
From a practical pov even if larger they are a PITA. if you are into sport gymnastics etc they get in the way.
In general one way or another many girls and women are not keen. Ambivalent. Would be comfier in many ways without them.
Meanwhile males who are non binary/trans this seems to be a common number 1 wishlist item.
That puts it in a different context. Where do you want to be in the sex class order? Looker or lookee? Able to walk down the high street with no attention or with eyes subtly or not so subtly up and down up and down? That sort of thing.
And of course implants can be removed. A double mastectomy is a much larger operation removing healthy tissue permanently.
Finally. Why is it seen as not a big deal for girls/ women? Is it because society is used to girls and women trying to alter their bodies to fit in with the male gaze? And girls and women understanding that as they live in society too? Restrictive clothes, uncomfortable shoes. In the past foot binding tight corsetry. Having pubic hair ripped out and the idea of an appt at beautician is 'pampering'. (Yes I know some men do it too).
If you don't want the attention discomfort unpleasant things to do with breasts that happen because, men will be men. Then have them cut off.
Yes obviously some people have sex dysphoria.
This focus on the breasts for both male and female without any analysis or attempt to understand if there's something going on. It's obvious to me.
I suppose it's easier not to think about it too much?"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4232660-Guardian-hits-new-low?pg=3[/quote]
Superb post, @R0wantrees.