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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Could you stay married to a TRA?

395 replies

SapphosRock · 22/04/2021 15:44

She believes TWAW, their feelings are more important than women’s rights and some lesbians have penises. Get over it. She was on here once upon a time but got permanently banned.
Everything else about the relationship is wonderful. Can we get past this? It seems like a stupid reason to get divorced. Our values used to be fairly similar but she’s got heavily involved in trans activism and I have gone the other way. Sorry for the pity party, just feel quite down about it today. Has anyone else been through similar?

OP posts:
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R0wantrees · 23/04/2021 18:55

There's a reason lone fathers are apt to lurk outside the Ladies' and ask a woman to escort their daughter in with her. And there's a reason mother's bring their little boys into the Ladies' with them even when they get a bit too old for it. Predatory men exist and you don't know when they're about as they don't wear labels.

This is why female toilets, should exclude all males including those who identify as TW and 'caught short'.

NewlyGranny · 23/04/2021 18:55

Sorry for the detail! But my answer to OP's question would be no. I have women friends, a sister and daughters to bond and socialise with but in my intimate relationship I'm heterosexual, so if my husband decided he was no longer a man it would not be a relationship in which I could remain. Which doesn't mean I'd hate him or cut him out of my life, just that it wouldn't be what I signed up to. It would be like forced conversion to lesbianism and no forced conversion is ever right.

Shizuku · 23/04/2021 19:00

@R0wantrees

There's a reason lone fathers are apt to lurk outside the Ladies' and ask a woman to escort their daughter in with her. And there's a reason mother's bring their little boys into the Ladies' with them even when they get a bit too old for it. Predatory men exist and you don't know when they're about as they don't wear labels.

This is why female toilets, should exclude all males including those who identify as TW and 'caught short'.

How are you planning to police that?
NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 19:02

On the bogs thing

Yes it sounds trivial which is why when eg prisons is the subject it gets turned back to bogs

Few points

It's not even handed. Loads of restaurants etc who had both have turned one unisex and they get extra space etc. I've been in a couple of places where this was done and in one there was an apologetic man and in the other there was a man who glared at me when I came out. Both were old style cubicles in a room with gaps. This sign was up in one.

Could you stay married to a TRA?
NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 19:04

Also IME many men feel no qualms about using stuff if there's not essentially a massive keep out sign.

In both my current work and previous work the men used the disabled toilet when they wanted a shit. I never used them as they had a sign on the door with a wheelchair and there were other toilets.

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 19:08

When I was heavily pregnant I needed the toilet on the tube station after my commute.

I got in the queue and 2 women joined, one of them also pregnant.

We waited for ages then I knocked. Nothing.

I was going to pre myself! We were all doing wee wee dance like toddlers. After maybe 10 mins door opened. Bloke came out and gave that smirk that I've seen before when men have got one over on women. Christ it stank. Men's were a 3 min walk away.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 23/04/2021 19:10

How are you planning to police that

It would work in exactly the same way as it does with all men (including many transwomen) who currently do not use women’s facilities, they abide by the social contract of single sex spaces. It is self-policing. The problem only arises if people try to impose a new social contract, which is what some trans activists are trying to do now.

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 19:10

That was before the new ways. Now there is gents (urinals and a cubicle I'm told). The women's is now all gender. And the accessible is as well and always was.

So as usual with this the people who don't have the long queues/ pregnancy/ bladder weakness due to age etc have 3 options one of them single sex. The ones who always have the massive queues have no single sex provision.

That enraged me tbh.

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 19:11

Enrages.

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 19:18

Who polices it?
Listen to yourself!

Women have been accepting of the occasional TW in bogs. It's all very polite. Bit of the usual eye contact between women that I've learnt men don't even notice and are oblivious to. We learn to be subtle. Just yep I've seen that to. Recognition that ok no problem but we all have noticed.

Before if a man was in there, I mean an obviously male person who presented male, if there was bouncers/ staff etc you could get them removed. Or enough women to feel ok saying go away (risky).

Or if there was behaviour that was not right but not illegal. Hanging around. Striking up conversations. Staring etc. You could get them gone.

Now it's don't say anything and it might be illegal to do so. Non illegal but creepy behaviour, what can you do? Wait until a crime is committed? I mean FFS.

We have single sex spaces for a lot of reasons. Some obvious some harder to articulate.

And of course if a woman says that person is being creepy. It's always been. Are you imagining it? Over reacting? He's not done anything illegal etc etc

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 19:28

Shizuku you always ask us to defend/ explain our views. Which we do from our sometimes very personal experiences.

I think it would be good if you could return the favour.

Why don't you think men will utilise or exploit the opening up of facilities etc to them if they can? Whether for convenience or other reasons?

That's the main one. I'd be genuinely grateful for an answer because my life experience tells me they definitely will.

QuentinBunbury · 23/04/2021 19:51

Let's not derail a support thread into debating views on toilets.

JediGnot · 23/04/2021 19:54

@TinselAngel

Actually I think I've misunderstood you Jedi, apologies.

My point is that to airily dismiss the concerns of many women and thus privilege the rights of the males who cause those concerns, shows a willingness to prioritise men and dismiss women that the OP may find familiar from her wife's opinions.

It's a pattern of thinking that is difficult to get out of.

Apology accepted, of course. Thanks.

Like you are capable of considering more than one issue at once, I hope I'm capable of recognizing that relatively unimportant things are often important for what they represent and stand for.

In terms of the toilet debate my gut feel is that public toilets are fairly low down the list of priorities... but then again I can see unisex toilets only in a secondary school as being a massive issue for many many girls.

Floisme · 23/04/2021 19:58

In my opinion op, the priority is for you and your wife to draw up some ground rules about your children. Good luck.

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 20:00

Sorry- point taken Smile

Original poster
SapphosRock · 23/04/2021 20:06

I have a bit of an update. Wife came home earlier in an an awful state. The local TRAs (they’re like the bloody mafia) have done a terrible thing to one of her friends. It’s too outing to say what but the poor woman is now feeling desperate and suicidal. The TRAs are gunning for a public execution and their twisted version of events will probably be all over social media this weekend.

The sad thing is DW’s friend was probably one of their biggest supporters and allies and did so much for the local LGBTQ community.

DW is devastated they could be so toxic and is seriously questioning her friendship with them. I’m obviously really upset for DW’s friend but I’m also relieved she hasn’t sided with the TRAs. It shows there is hope for us.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 20:12

Don't use this as an opportunity to say told you so even s bit. Steer clear of the whole politics.

Talk to and comfort your wife.
And obviously encourage her to support her friend irl is call her meet up with her. Do you know the friend? If she's suicidal then it's emergency time. Is the friend with anyone to support her?

MichelleofzeResistance · 23/04/2021 20:14

That poor woman and your poor wife. Flowers Really not the nicest way to have to realise the dark side of this activism. Hope your DWs friend is ok.

Sophoclesthefox · 23/04/2021 20:17

What a horrible situation sapphos. It must take every fibre of your being to not say “I told you so”. But maybe, just maybe this other poor woman’s troubles might be a chink of light for your marriage.

In your shoes, I’d stay quite quiet and let it all unfold.

Flowers
Sophoclesthefox · 23/04/2021 20:18

Yes, sorry forgot to say I hope she’s all right and has support around her.

Erkrie · 23/04/2021 20:18

I hope it works out for you both. I'm sorry that happened to your wife.

PermanentTemporary · 23/04/2021 20:19

Im really sorry to hear that. I agree with NiceGerbil.

zzizzer · 23/04/2021 20:23

Sorry to hear that Sappho, and I hope your wife's friend is okay.

Its bizarre how often they seem to turn on their own at the slightest provocation. Batshit crazy.

Agreed on not somehow rubbing it in - show instead that you're on the kind and logical side, rather than making her dig her heels in more for them.

GNCQ · 23/04/2021 20:26

Holy crap. So sorry. Sounds terrible.

ArabellaScott · 23/04/2021 20:30

Hope your DW and her friend are okay. This sounds like a horrible situation. She is lucky to have you and your DW there for her.