Pronouns on BBC?

[thenonsensepotter]

Watching Glow Up on iplayer and every time they show a contestants name on the screen their pronoun is included in brackets. I don't watch a lot of current TV, is this a proper "thing" now or just this one program?

"Nowt so queer as folk." As a person of mixed heritage (Yorkshire/Lancashire) I could object to the appropriation of my culture.

Both my maternal grandparents were from Yorkshire. So I identify with my Yorkshire heritage. I drink Yorkshire tea. And eat cheese with apple pie like my grandfather did. I reclaim the word "queer".

@WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

"Hi. I'm a authority on this subject. I will tell you all you are wrong. But don't ask me why or how or for any clarification. Because that's personal."

Ffs.

ASugarr also claimed on a previous thread to work alongside clinicians administering questionnaires that diagnosed a child as trans. The questions, even the gist of them, were also apparently confidential information that 'couldn't be given out'. Does the quesionnaire exist? I don't think so.

@ASugarr

That is understandable. I don't work with primary age so thank you for clarifying.

And yet you posted this, and haven’t answered my question about whether the person giving the five-year-old the counselling would have BACP core competencies for working with this age group:

I don't work with five year olds and even if I did, we'd probably have a counseling session or two to document everything they discuss and pass it on to wherever is appropriate.

Never said it diagnosis a child as transgender. At all. It's literally just questions that can help if a child is unsure of their gender. Nothing more or less.

How do the questions help?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

How do the questions help?

Like how questions should work. By knowing how to best support them and to listen to the young person.

This is all a very white middle-class dominance display isn't it? Like, 'I'm SO important you must read and obey my pronoun demands and my appropriation of your oppression and centre me in everything you say, think and do, I am so incredibly important.' And like that actor Cummings as a white man making the bizarre leap of illogic claiming it's racism for women of all colours to act as anything but support units.

Re safeguarding and confidentiality.
No organisation going into any school would ever be able to 'refer' a child to an external health or otherwise organisation without parental consent. ie using a formal referral process. The issue of consent, confidentiality and referral to external agencies for under 16s (counselling, health car, terminations etc) is complex and always involves discussions about consent, age, parental responsibilities and safeguarding - often with other agencies.

The idea that outsiders have these powers in incorrect and dangerous - especially if held by those working with children in schools.

@persistentwoman

Re safeguarding and confidentiality. No organisation going into any school would ever be able to 'refer' a child to an external health or otherwise organisation without parental consent. ie using a formal referral process. The issue of consent, confidentiality and referral to external agencies for under 16s (counselling, health car, terminations etc) is complex and always involves discussions about consent, age, parental responsibilities and safeguarding - often with other agencies.

The idea that outsiders have these powers in incorrect and dangerous - especially if held by those working with children in schools.

Key word there is child. Yes, for under 16s there aren't many ways without parental consent to support them. Some sexual health support can be with good reason (contraception and all that). However for older they don't have to. Which (for the 100th time) is the main age I and many other organizations work for.

Iatrogenic disease is the result of diagnostic and therapeutic procedures undertaken on a patient.

Its very clear that those who specialise and/or are invested in 'gender identity' ideology often lack wider awareness and professional experience of child development matters.

Some sexual health support can be with good reason (contraception and all that)
Again, this can only be accessed by certain professionals under certain circumstances. I've spent decades facilitating healthcare support for teenagers, CAMHs, EP, counselling and the rest.
Random visitors to schools running sessions do not undertake this work.

Any answer to my question for the third time, ASugarr, about whether the person giving the five-year-old the counselling would have BACP core competencies for working with this age group, in response to you posting this:

I don't work with five year olds and even if I did, we'd probably have a counseling session or two to document everything they discuss and pass it on to wherever is appropriate.

#team 🐈

Key word there is child. Yes, for under 16s there aren't many ways without parental consent to support them.

Anyone under 18 years old in UK is legally a child.

"NSPCC
Definitions of a child
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) defines a child as everyone under 18 unless, "under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier".

England
In England a child is defined as anyone who has not yet reached their 18th birthday. Child protection guidance points out that even if a child has reached 16 years of age and is:

living independently
in further education
a member of the armed forces
in hospital; or
in custody in the secure estate
they are still legally children and should be given the same protection and entitlements as any other child (Department for Education, 2018a).

Northern Ireland
In Northern Ireland the The Children (Northern Ireland) Order 1995 defines a 'child' as a person under the age of 18.

Scotland
In Scotland, the definition of a child varies in different legal contexts, but statutory guidance which supports the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014, includes all children and young people up to the age of 18. Where concerns are raised about a 16- or 17-year-old, agencies will need to consider which legislation or guidance is appropriate to follow, given the age and situation of the young person at risk
Wales
Section 3 of the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 states that a child is a person who is aged under 18."
learning.nspcc.org.uk/child-protection-system/children-the-law

Here's an FOI with a PDF questions from Nottingham NHS

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/318902/response/785514/attach/html/4/1277%20APPENDIX%201%20First%20Assesment%20Questionnaire.pdf.html

Interesting. One of the genderbread explainers linked to above says:

"Gender identity can be thought of as the aspects of man-ness and woman-ness you either do or don’t align
with. In this case, we are talking about the norms (social expectations), and roles (ways we fulfill or act out
those expectations) placed upon “men” and “women” in a society. A few typical norms of man-ness might
be “strong-willed, logical, athletic” and a roles of “leader, builder, protector.” For woman-ness, we might
think of the norms “empathic, sensitive, caring” and roles “teacher, caretaker, supporter.”"

This is saying that your gender identity is based on how much you do or don't confirm to societal norms and expectations of men and women.

So I am strong-willed, logical, athletic, a leader and a protector. That suggests my gender identity would be as a man?

Key word there is child. Yes, for under 16s there aren't many ways without parental consent to support them.

Yet, your posts do not make that clear at all.

Which (for the 100th time) is the main age I and many other organizations work for.

We have no idea who you are as you are a person anonymously posting on the internet. We have no idea who you work for.

I am NOT seeking that information, I am pointing out that you could be anyone. The claims you make are read by people who have not seen your posts before and therefore will not make the assumption that you are talking about over 16s. In fact, I don't remember reading that you work with ONLY over 16s at all.

I know that when I am asked questions to clarify my statements, I take it as an indication that I have not communicated all the vital information needed for people to fully understand my perspective.

This is particularly dangerous when talking to parents, such as me, about people who are in their children's schools. I am not alone in being very concerned about who is teaching my child if it is not a fully qualified and experienced teacher for that age group.

A few typical norms of man-ness might be “strong-willed, logical, athletic” and a roles of “leader, builder, protector.” For woman-ness, we might think of the norms “empathic, sensitive, caring” and roles “teacher, caretaker, supporter.”"

'Gender identity' ideology is very embracing of sexist stereotypes. Its not surprising given that the concept originates with sexologists who held sexist atitudes.
I am however continually surprised by how many people sign up to it today.

@Helleofabore

Key word there is child. Yes, for under 16s there aren't many ways without parental consent to support them.

Yet, your posts do not make that clear at all.

Which (for the 100th time) is the main age I and many other organizations work for.

We have no idea who you are as you are a person anonymously posting on the internet. We have no idea who you work for.

I am NOT seeking that information, I am pointing out that you could be anyone. The claims you make are read by people who have not seen your posts before and therefore will not make the assumption that you are talking about over 16s. In fact, I don't remember reading that you work with ONLY over 16s at all.

I know that when I am asked questions to clarify my statements, I take it as an indication that I have not communicated all the vital information needed for people to fully understand my perspective.

This is particularly dangerous when talking to parents, such as me, about people who are in their children's schools. I am not alone in being very concerned about who is teaching my child if it is not a fully qualified and experienced teacher for that age group.

Cool. I've said young people this entire time. Children were only brought up because someone asked about a 5 year old which I don't work with that age. I've been talking about young adults this entire time. It's ironic considering myself and others who do teach and support are fully qualified. But what you don't seem to understand is that young adults and teenagers have rights to confidential support and help (with strict measures taken if there is a safeguardung concern). That's it.

Let also remember that within safeguarding information is only shared where it needs to be and where it is safe to. Sadly it isn't always safe for parents to know what's happening with their young adult child. I can't imagine where I'd be today without the right to confidential support from support services. Bare that in mind as well. But I've got work to do so have a good day all.

Like how questions should work. By knowing how to best support them and to listen to the young person.

I'm curious as to what expectations are set to children answering these questions? What is this "support" that can be offered, and by whom?

Children were only brought up because someone asked about a 5 year old which I don't work with that age.

So again, for the 4th time, if you don’t work with under-16s, why would you post that if you did, you would give them counselling and refer them to some random service whose details you seem worryingly vague about?

I don't work with five year olds and even if I did, we'd probably have a counseling session or two to document everything they discuss and pass it on to wherever is appropriate.

ASugarr

"Because trans women are women."

So, to sum up, you are saying transwomen are women and human females are ciswomen?
That doesn't seem to be acceptable as far as I am concerned.

@ASugarr

Never said it diagnosis a child as transgender. At all. It's literally just questions that can help if a child is unsure of their gender. Nothing more or less.

This imposes on children the constructed (and contested) idea that the child has 'a gender' which they may or may not be sure of.

It is disingenous to suggest that it is something simple which does not represent a diagnosis of sorts given the impact on many children when trusted adults introduce possible explanations for children's confusion and/questions.