Nordic model demand in Daily Mail

[LadyVymes]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9482555/MARY-HARRINGTON-social-justice-warriors-backing-men-pay-sex.html

Personally I think I'd trust all the leading Human Rights, Health, anti-trafficking, anti-STI etc orgs over the Daily Mail tabloid.

The Daily Mail is now deemed so uncredible Microsoft's newest browser now gives a popup warning to users visiting it that it can't be trusted!

www.theguardian.com/media/2019/jan/23/dont-trust-daily-mail-website-microsoft-browser-warns-users

An NGO DecrimNow have written an open letter to parliament in favour of decrim instead. At the bottom of the letter you can see the long (and growing) list of orgs and individuals who have signed it. This also includes the University and College Union which has 120,000+ academic members.

decrimnow.org.uk/open-letter-on-the-nordic-model/

"the rape of vulnerable young women"

Rape is already illegal, noone is advocating for that to change.

Huge trust in the academy here Pie. HUGE. I mean how many of them sighed that letter about Professor Kathleen Stock that they had to retract?

"It astonishes me how anyone can watch what has unfolded in Germany and still defend decriminalisation."

Just saw this. btw Germany has legalisation, not decriminalisation.

New Zealand for example has decriminalisation.

@MargaritaPie

"It astonishes me how anyone can watch what has unfolded in Germany and still defend decriminalisation."

Just saw this. btw Germany has legalisation, not decriminalisation.

New Zealand for example has decriminalisation.

And a subsequent massive unacknowledged problem with child sexual exploitation as decriminalisation allows the sex industry to manage itself.

Bizarre these supposed left-wing organisations being so pro-decrim aka the bosses monitoring their own industry. In what other industry would this be seen as desirable?

"And a subsequent massive unacknowledged problem with child sexual exploitation as decriminalisation allows the sex industry to manage itself."

Source?

Ah New Zealand! The holy grail...

"New Zealand is regularly held up as the gold standard model of how to eradicate problems inherent to prostitution. In 2003 its government voted (by a majority of one) to decriminalise pimping, brothel owning and sex buying. The argument, led by the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective (NZPC), was as persuasive as it was misleading: removing all criminal laws from all aspects of the trade would lead to “worker’s rights” and safety for the women. Handily for sex trade entrepreneurs, this resulted in pimps and brothel owners being rebranded as “businessmen”. I heard a legal pimp in Nevada refer to his “business” as similar to that of McDonalds. Except in the case of prostitution, human beings, not dead flesh, are the product for sale.
Alongside other countries and states that have removed criminal penalties against sex trade exploiters, such as Holland, Germany, Nevada (US), and some states in Australia, New Zealand helped to make selling sex as respectable and devoid of red tape as selling cars. The application form for opening a brothel in New Zealand is just two pages long: three pages shorter than the form needed to adopt a dog or cat from Battersea Dogs & Cats Home.

One of the many survivors of the sex trade I met during my research is Sabrinna Valisce, who volunteered with the NZPC over a 25-year period. Valisce campaigned alongside her colleagues for blanket decriminalisation, but now regrets doing so. “I thought it would give more power and rights to the women,” she told me, “but I soon realised the opposite was true.”"

www.independent.co.uk/voices/prostitution-decriminalisation-new-zealand-holland-abuse-harm-commercialisation-a7878586.html

I am really disappointed with my MP, Tulip Siddiq (Camden). I emailed her in 2019 about this and she was in favour of a sex buyer law. But when I contacted her in January this year she seemed to be backtracking - "sensitive area..... issue is complex.....will give the bill close attention" blah blah blah. Grrrrr

www.independent.co.uk/voices/prostitution-decriminalisation-new-zealand-holland-abuse-harm-commercialisation-a7878586.html

The headline is "This is what really happens when prostitution is decriminalised" but the article begins with a picture of Amsterdam's RLD which isn't decriminalisation at all?

"I heard a legal pimp in Nevada refer to his “business” as similar to that of McDonalds. Except in the case of prostitution, human beings, not dead flesh, are the product for sale."

Sex workers sell a service, not their "bodies".

When owning/running a brothel is illegal (for example in the UK) you do realise the ones who end up being fined/arrested/charged over this law are the prostitutes themselves? If 2 or more prostitutes work together at the same place (even if it isn't at the same time) they are breaking this law.

Often here in Britain and over in the US the police and media will say they are doing "anti-trafficking" raids on brothels and say they have made arrests. What they keep quiet is the fact the ones arrested are almost always the prostitutes themselves for the brothel-keeping law, and not actual traffickers.

In Sweden when they introduced the Nordic model, part of this law made it illegal to rent property to a sex worker. This resulted in prostitutes being evicted as soon as the landlord found out and some ended up homeless, it also gives them another reason to keep what they do a secret and not ask for help if they feel they need it.

"Pimping", despite what many think, is actually a very broad term which means providing any service at all for a sex worker in return for payment. This includes things like make a website for a sex worker, provide transport eg driver her to/from a client, provide security eg wait in the car the entire time a sex worker is with her client etc.

Reasons like these are generally why sex workers and many others advocate decriminalisation.

Thanks for this. I have written to my MP (Tory). I fear though that Tories will oppose it out of principle as its a Labour MP that is behind it and many Labour will oppose due to Momentum's opposition.
I'm glad I cancelled my DD to Amnesty a while ago, they have lost the plot (again).

Few things disappoint me more than the stance that human rights organisation has decided to take on an industry which perpetuates the oppression of women. An industry based on selling women as products and a money pit for people traffickers. Their stance, which is based on the myth of the happy sex worker, makes no sense for women living in poverty in the countries where they claim to be focused on improving human rights.

When owning/running a brothel is illegal (for example in the UK) you do realise the ones who end up being fined/arrested/charged over this law are the prostitutes themselves? If 2 or more prostitutes work together at the same place (even if it isn't at the same time) they are breaking this law

I can't recall seeing reports of these almost mythical 2 prostitutes working together being prosecuted. There certainly have been prosecutions of pimps, traffickers and brothel keepers.

I can't recall seeing reports of these almost mythical 2 prostitutes working together being prosecuted.

No me neither, and I'm sure it would be all over the Guardian, Independent etc.

In Sweden when they introduced the Nordic model, part of this law made it illegal to rent property to a sex worker. This resulted in prostitutes being evicted as soon as the landlord found out and some ended up homeless

It's not illegal to lease a flat to a prostitute in the UK but using a flat as a brothel is a ground to terminate a lease. I have a couple of rental flats and I would have no hesitation about evicting prostitutes using them as a brothel.

Pimping", despite what many think, is actually a very broad term which means providing any service at all for a sex worker in return for payment. This includes things like make a website for a sex worker, provide transport eg driver her to/from a client, provide security eg wait in the car the entire time a sex worker is with her client etc

A very useful catch all word then.

Thanks - have also written to my MP using the template. It takes less than one minute.
My MP is a female Labour MP who toes the TWAW line so I don't hold out too much hope but fingers crossed.

A very useful catch all word then.

Indeed MissBarbary

Email sent to my MP for the good it will do based on his previous responses. At least he can’t hide behind “none of my constituents have raise a concern”.

"I can't recall seeing reports of these almost mythical 2 prostitutes working together being prosecuted. There certainly have been prosecutions of pimps, traffickers and brothel keepers."

In the eyes of the cops in Britain, if there is more than one prostitute working together at the same place they are guilty of "brothel keeping".

"I have a couple of rental flats and I would have no hesitation about evicting prostitutes using them as a brothel."

Would you still evict the prostitute if she wasn't using it as a brothel? i.e. just working as a prostitute by herself.

What if that was her home and selling sex was her only income and her eviction would send her into the streets with nothing?

Re my first point have a look at this Twitter post:
twitter.com/MissKilahMarie/status/1379585028447989760

Look at how it's worded and have a look through what most comments are saying. Looks like the cops have busted 9 traffickers doesn't it?

Now read the article, again it looks just like they have made a successful "trafficking" bust doesn't it?
www.wsbtv.com/news/local/21-arrested-human-trafficking-sting-operation-set-up-by-metro-atlanta-police-departments/6UQRU6XV6JAAZEUU4Q6F2PSUHI/

Until you realise all the arrest were for "prostitution, pimping and drug charges". There is no evidence any trafficking took place and no arrests were made for trafficking, but the whole thing is made to look like "tackling trafficking" when most arrests were just prostitutes for prostitution.

The way this is reported is making a lot of people think ordinary prostitutes are "traffickers".

What if that was her home and selling sex was her only income and her eviction would send her into the streets with nothing?

What does it say about our society that you can envisage a woman selling their body as a commodity would be her only available option to earn a living?

What does it say about our society that you can envisage a woman selling their body as a commodity would be her only available option to earn a living?

If you're going to advocate for laws that will enable the police to reduce or stop her business, who will pay her the money she would have otherwise made selling sex? You?

Wouldn't fighting poverty (ie the cause) be better than laws which result in prostitutes being arrested for prostitution/brothel-keeping or evicting them or by reducing their earnings?

@MargaritaPie

What does it say about our society that you can envisage a woman selling their body as a commodity would be her only available option to earn a living?

If you're going to advocate for laws that will enable the police to reduce or stop her business, who will pay her the money she would have otherwise made selling sex? You?

Wouldn't fighting poverty (ie the cause) be better than laws which result in prostitutes being arrested for prostitution/brothel-keeping or evicting them or by reducing their earnings?

I have no desire to see prostitutes made criminals, only then people that exploit them. That's the traffickers, pimps and punters. You know, the people making profit out of selling women.

@MargaritaPie

"I can't recall seeing reports of these almost mythical 2 prostitutes working together being prosecuted. There certainly have been prosecutions of pimps, traffickers and brothel keepers."

In the eyes of the cops in Britain, if there is more than one prostitute working together at the same place they are guilty of "brothel keeping".

Sure in theory, but it doesn't really work in practice because you can't prove which woman is the manager. They might get a slap on the wrist but nothing more.

UK law enforcement is actually rather tolerant of prostitution. Look at Leeds! And this is decades after Kings Cross.

I’ve fired off a quick email to my MP using the template from upthread

www.nmnow.org/support_women/find_your_mp