Nordic model demand in Daily Mail

[LadyVymes]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9482555/MARY-HARRINGTON-social-justice-warriors-backing-men-pay-sex.html

In Sweden the prevalence of prostitution has been reduced under the Nordic Model: there is no way, no way at all that that would happen under decriminalisation.

A John is a man who uses prostitutes for sex.

"In Sweden the prevalence of prostitution has been reduced under the Nordic Model"

See link in previous post. The sex trade in Sweden is estimated to be the same as pre-[Nordic model] law levels.

It' funny how the prohibitionists talk about Douglas Fox and Alejandra Gil when you consider the people they are involved with. Douglas Fox and Alejandra Gil have a right to an opinion, they don't tell lies, and don't have any control over organisations like Amnesty International.

Jim Wells and Ruhama have a lot of political influence and make up statistics.

Jim Wells is a Northern Ireland politician, and Evangelical and a Creationist. He has got into trouble with his views on homosexuality and abortion. In the Northern Ireland Assembly he used his false statistic, that 127 prostitutes have been murdered in the Netherlands since legalisation, to get the Nordic model adopted there.

Ruhama is an organisation in the Republic of Ireland founded by two orders of nuns, both of whom were involved in Magdalene laundries where unmarried mothers were imprisoned. They invented the statistic that 38% of Irish prostitutes have attempted suicide. They have helped to get the Nordic model adopted there.

Someone said "If your feminism intersects with the interests of pimps and johns and traffickers then it’s misogyny". I would say if your feminism intersects with the interests of homophobic Evangelicals and nuns then it is misogyny.

The last thing that genuine pimps want is decriminalisation just like the last thing that drug dealers want is decriminalisation. They know that people won't need them if that happens. Women don't need pimps except when they can't operate freely, they prefer to work for themselves sometimes with others for safety.

It's widely recognised that the 1993 law in Ireland which restricted the freedoms of prostitutes forced women into the hands of pimps. That's what Rachel Moran, the 'survivor', says in her book. And she should know, because for a while she became one. So you are listening to a self-confessed pimp.

You can be convicted of 'pimping' or 'trafficking' without any coercion involved; two women working together can be convicted using the same laws that are used against pimps.

What seems to have happened in Sweden is that for the first ten years there was no reduction in demand. I know that they say that the proportion of men who pay for sex decreased from 13% to 8%. That's not the statistic people should be using though.

In surveys people were asked 'have you paid for sex in the previous 12 months?', 'have you ever paid for sex?' and 'have you ever sold sex?'. The responses to the first question showed an increase from 1.3% to 1.8% (from 1996 to 2008). The responses to the second question showed a drop, and to the third there was an increase, in the same period.

However, if someone says yes in a survey they cannot answer no in a later survey to any question about have you ever done something. It's useless at tracking changes and there are misleading rises and falls as older generations with a different culture become too old to participate in survey (cut off age 74 years).

After 2008 all the metrics went down, except for the second which went back up. We know that the Swedish government spent a lot more money on law enforcement then, but there was also the 2008 financial crisis where men had less money for luxuries.

Or it could have gone down by itself as statistics do because of fashions in lifestyle. For the abolitionists to say that if you adopt this in your country you will reduce demand is wrong. The Swedish government should be saying if you spend vast amounts of money, devote large sections of your police force to catching punters and introduce forms of surveillance not yet available to police in most democracies then you might reduce it from 1.3% to 0.8%. That's not even half, more like two-fifths, and it in not the lowest in Europe (that's another lie).

This is a good read.

This is not surprising bearing in mind the sexism of the left, but the same apologists often also remain silent about the indisputable fact that black, brown and indigenous women and girls all over the world arefirst in lineto be bought and sold into prostitution.

During extensive research for my book on the sex trade, I have met and interviewed women and men that are resisting the normalisation of racism within prostitution.

I met Ne’cole Daniels, an African-American sex trade survivor and member of the abolitionist organisationSPACE International, in 2015 at a conference in the US. Daniels is clear about the racism that upholds systems of prostitution in the US. “The sex trade is like racism. They are saying that some of us are worth less than others.”

Pala Molisa, a Pacific academic and campaigner against male violence from New Zealand, has often been accused of being“whorephobic”since writing about prostitution as a form of oppression. Molisa has been threatened with losing his job, been a target of an online bullying and harassment campaign, and accused by sex work propagandists of being a “sexually repressed creep”.

Continues: www.independent.co.uk/voices/prostitution-sex-trade-built-brutal-racism-a7925476.html

Sounds familiar.

Bridget Perrier is aNative Canadian activistand sex trade survivor. In 2015, Perrier appeared on TV in the UK debating a (white) member of theEnglish Collective of Prostitutes(ECP). Perrier, who has raised two children of serial killerRobert Pickton’s murder victims, was told by the ECP spokeswoman that she had “blood on her hands” because Perrier campaigns to criminalise pimps and johns. “This is just colonialist shit,” says Perrier. “I am sick of being told that prostitution is good for me and my indigenous sisters when it is so obviously not good enough for them.”

Courtney, also a Native survivor from Canada, told me: “The sex trade is built on racism and colonialism as well as misogyny. For Native women and African-American women, and all women and girls of colour, it is yet another way in which the white man takes what he wants from our communities, our cultures and our souls.”

A number of sex buyers I have interviewed have told me that they often select specific women on the basis of racist and colonialist stereotypes. Ethnicity itself is eroticised in prostitution. One man said: “I had a mental check list in terms of race; I have tried them all over the last five years but they turned out to be the same.” Another interviewee openly admitted that his use of Chinese women in prostitution was in order to fulfil a fantasy that he held about them. “You can do a lot more with the Oriental girls like blow job without a condom, and you can cum in their mouths… I view them as dirty.”

Advertising of sexual services is often reliant on racist and colonialist stereotypes. During a meeting with theAsian Women for Equality Societyin Montreal, I was told about research involving analysis of 1,500 online advertisements for prostitution. Ninety per cent were found to have used racist stereotypes as a selling factor, such as Asian women being described as “submissive”, “exotic”, “newly immigrated”, “fresh off the boat”, and “young and experienced”. “This is what men are looking for in Asian women,” one of the collective said.

(Continues)

The slave trade is alive and well, but has been restructured under neoliberal capitalism. During the act of prostitution the bodies of women and girls are colonised by the men who use them. How the left can ignore this, while claiming to be fighting for an equal society free of oppression, is beyond me. Much of the male left may not care too much about women’s oppression under prostitution, but surely they can at least pay lip service to the fact that the system of prostitution is in part built on brutal racism?

Food for thought

It's used more in America. "Punter" is more common in UK.

The idea behind "John" as a slang term is that John is one of the most common names and the men who buy sex are generally just everyday typical men.

Current situation in Sweden? Hear it direct from the sex workers:

Source: twitter.com/RedUmbrellaSwe

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

the same apologists often also remain silent about the indisputable fact that black, brown and indigenous women and girls all over the world arefirst in lineto be bought and sold into prostitution.

The women and girls who have been most exploited in Britain are white women and girls in Northern cities like Rochdale. They suffered violent coercion for sure. Whether they were 'bought' or 'sold' I'm not sure. I wouldn't call what happened to them prostitution. It was rape.

So who is 'first in line'? It seems the first in line for modern slavery are the poor. In America more black people are poor than white people. So it can seem that it's about race when it's really about poverty.

That's violent coercion. Most prostitution is not about violent coercion. Some of it is, but that's the same for other ways of making money, such as garment factories. Even in a poor country like Cambodia most prostitution is not coercion.

This if from a woman who lived in Cambodia.
Most of the women were born in the Cambodian countryside, and a combination of familial obligation, financial need, and personal aspirations for adventure, freedom or romance drove them to migrate to the cities. Many but not all have elementary educations — but that’s it, so when they get to the city, their options are limited. They can either do domestic work like cleaning, or street trading of fruits or other goods, or garment factory work, or entertainment or sex work. Many tried their hand at everything and ended up preferring to work in the bars because they were the most lucrative, there was more flexibility of movement, they got to meet people from outside of Cambodia, and learn and improve their English skills, and the bars were just generally more ‘fun’ than the other jobs. Most women are very resourceful and entrepreneurial, and the ultimate goal of many of them was to open their own businesses — like a clothing store, bar, restaurant or salon, so they could support themselves and their families.

[quote MargaritaPie]Current situation in Sweden? Hear it direct from the sex workers:

Source: twitter.com/RedUmbrellaSwe[/quote]
I would say that it's a fucked up relationship and if he's benefiting from the money she's making while he vacate their apartment for a punter, then he is a pimp.

"if he's benefiting from the money she's making while he vacate their apartment for a punter, then he is a pimp."

Other tweets specify he's not a pimp.