Help explain non binary

[Educationneeded]

Hi, thread was inspired by the other about coming out as GC. I have name changed as I’m not ready to be outed so just incase.

I am GC, although only have expressed my views to close friends and family. My younger sister is due to go up to high school in September and six months ago came out as non binary. We all believe this decision was heavily influenced by TikTok and the wokeness on there.

My parents don’t really understand. My Dad just rolls his eyes but my Mum wants to learn however doesn’t know much on the subject and has asked me to talk to my sister. I have no idea how to even approach the topic with her. Anyone have any guidance? Anything I can tell or show my Mum? I’ve read a lot on trans and women’s right but not much on non binary and don’t really know where to start with this minefield. I guess I’d like to educate myself too.

How about a compromise - I won't refer to people who aren't trans as "cis", if you won't refer to trans people as the sex they were assigned at birth?

I wouldn’t say assigned but observed at birth. Embryos are XX or XY (and rare cases of triple) and this is observed at birth or can be determined very early on.

But no I won’t use the sex based term if not welcome.

But I will use woman / female for me and fight against the erasure of these sex based words. Also uphold sex based rights.

I will also use the preferred pronoun but I won’t be forced to declare them.

I won’t tell dc they can change sex but will say that some identify differently.

I think I’ve covered what I think, albeit very quickly.

And I appreciate the non use of cis. As I do find it offensive, as do many on here.

Well of course - I'm trans so I'm inherently evil.

Don't be daft Shizuku.

Shizuku “When those boys who were raised as girls, without knowing they were really boys, spontaneously stated they felt they were boys, that’s gender identity “
Er what now ? That is SEX.

Anorexia is disordered thinking. Gender identity is perfectly natural and normal. The problem for trans people is that their gender identity doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth. It doesn't mean that their gender identity is disordered, only that for some reason, their body produced the opposite one to the one that is normally produced.

I just can't get over that people come out with this stuff with a straight fave, and even believe it to be true.

Also, going back to to the OP, how do you square this hypothesis with non-binary? It makes ZERO sense.

*face

It doesn't mean that their gender identity is disordered, only that for some reason, their body produced the opposite one to the one that is normally produced.

so, it's their body that's disordered?

You are arguing the 'brain in the wrong body', I take it, Shizuku.

It's like diagnosing a migraine. The doctor could do all kinds of scans and tests that might show up certain anomalies or not, but actually, they just go by what you tell them, and prescribe accordingly.

But a migraine is an illness/medical condition. We are told that being trans is not an illness so its not a good comparison.

Trans is also always compared with being gay, but you don't 'diagnose' homosexuality and you certainly don't 'prescribe' anything for it. It's just a descriptor for what one likes.

It doesn't mean that their gender identity is disordered, only that for some reason, their body produced the opposite one to the one that is normally produced.

Their body produced the opposite what?

If there are opposites then I guess there is only 2 in which case are you saying none binary doesn't exist?

@Helleofabore

I would class being trans as a DSD, and expect that will become an official position at some point.

I am pretty sure that you will be eternally disappointed then.

Differences of sex development is not anything to do with being trans. And having a DSD is a medical condition. You keep telling us that being trans is not a medical condition. Considering there are clear diagnosis parameters for DSD and seemingly nothing concrete for the other. And apparently a patient does not have to have gender dysphoria to be trans, so what even are you diagnosing.

I think this really does reflect disordered thinking.

"you keep telling us that being trans is not a medical condition."

Did I? Show me.

@acatcalledjohn

You are deflecting. Young transitioners are subject to the same sexism as girls who don't happen to be trans because no one can tell they are trans.

Such a shame that they are physically harmed for life by preventing puberty, and then further at risk of medical misdiagnoses because of physical differences between males and females.

Not to mention that there is no evidence that physically transitioning fixes dysmorphia. So in essence you have a load of butchered bodies with mental health issues.

But that's ok. Because, progression?

That's another deflection. The fact remains - young transitioners are subject to the same sexism as girls who don't happen to be trans because no one can tell they are trans.

@MarshaBradyo

And I appreciate the non use of cis. As I do find it offensive, as do many on here.

I find objections to the word offensive.

@SirVixofVixHall

Shizuku “When those boys who were raised as girls, without knowing they were really boys, spontaneously stated they felt they were boys, that’s gender identity “ Er what now ? That is SEX.

How did they know what sex they were? They had "sex change" operations within a couple of weeks of birth, they were raised as girls with no knowledge of their male past. How did they know, despite all appearances, and everything they had been told, that they were boys? Hint - it's called gender identity.

@Winederlust

Anorexia is disordered thinking. Gender identity is perfectly natural and normal. The problem for trans people is that their gender identity doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth. It doesn't mean that their gender identity is disordered, only that for some reason, their body produced the opposite one to the one that is normally produced.

I just can't get over that people come out with this stuff with a straight fave, and even believe it to be true.

Also, going back to to the OP, how do you square this hypothesis with non-binary? It makes ZERO sense.

Black and white are opposites, but grey exists. It's really not complicated.

@ArabellaScott

It doesn't mean that their gender identity is disordered, only that for some reason, their body produced the opposite one to the one that is normally produced.

so, it's their body that's disordered?

Non sequitur.

@ArabellaScott

You are arguing the 'brain in the wrong body', I take it, Shizuku.

"The wrong body" is a phrase some trans people use as a way to express a little of how it feels to be trans. You're not supposed to take it literally.

Shizuku

I was hoping you might be able to answer this I posted a couple of pages back? I presume you missed it as opposed to couldn;t answer....

The first issue is that the trans orthodoxy seeks to erase women's sex based rights without discussion, debate or meaningful logic and reasoning. Can someone please explain to me why gender identity rights (clearly a very important thing) are more important than women's sex based rights?

Then you have gender identity. Gender identity is not biological sex. It is not a stereotype (even though trans women NEVER seem to identify as masculine women who never wear make up or dresses, though they do often seem to be as physically and verbally aggressive in a very "man-like" way). It isn't even akin to supporting a football team. Trans women do not seem (to stereotype) to think that their womanhood relates to the fact that they're part of a wider group including all women. It is deeply personal.

So what is it? What is gender identity?

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

It's like diagnosing a migraine. The doctor could do all kinds of scans and tests that might show up certain anomalies or not, but actually, they just go by what you tell them, and prescribe accordingly.

But a migraine is an illness/medical condition. We are told that being trans is not an illness so its not a good comparison.

Trans is also always compared with being gay, but you don't 'diagnose' homosexuality and you certainly don't 'prescribe' anything for it. It's just a descriptor for what one likes.

You have failed to spot the analogy. Let me express it more simply for you:

Being trans and being a migraineur are both conditions you can go to a doctor for. Both are diagnosed on the basis of what the patient tells the doctor they are experiencing, and doctors prescribe medical treatment for both on the basis of what the patient old them.

Does that help?

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

It doesn't mean that their gender identity is disordered, only that for some reason, their body produced the opposite one to the one that is normally produced.

Their body produced the opposite what?

Scroll up - it's all there.

@midgedude

If there are opposites then I guess there is only 2 in which case are you saying none binary doesn't exist?

Black and white are opposites. Grey exists.

young transitioners are subject to the same sexism as girls who don't happen to be trans because no one can tell they are trans.

Except every female actually knows that they have been subject to sexist discrimination due to their sexed bodies (those that are formed to produce large gametes, whether they do or not) since birth. This shows just how little you know about the female life experience.

So, no. They don't, except some incredibly rare exceptions where parents have allowed their child to transition very early.

Your blanket statement is quite erroneous.

Both are diagnosed on the basis of what the patient tells the doctor they are experiencing, and doctors prescribe medical treatment for both on the basis of what the patient old them.

Reasons for migraine will be explored thoroughly by the doctor though. Probably will send people for tests, MRIs and other scans to find the answer. And those tests will generally support the diagnosis by giving a reason for the migraines.

So, as letsgetready points out. Your analogy has flaws in it.

"The wrong body" is a phrase some trans people use as a way to express a little of how it feels to be trans. You're not supposed to take it literally.

I guess it is the same thing about 'changing sex' then, isn't it? Not meant to be taken literally.