Help explain non binary

[Educationneeded]

Hi, thread was inspired by the other about coming out as GC. I have name changed as I’m not ready to be outed so just incase.

I am GC, although only have expressed my views to close friends and family. My younger sister is due to go up to high school in September and six months ago came out as non binary. We all believe this decision was heavily influenced by TikTok and the wokeness on there.

My parents don’t really understand. My Dad just rolls his eyes but my Mum wants to learn however doesn’t know much on the subject and has asked me to talk to my sister. I have no idea how to even approach the topic with her. Anyone have any guidance? Anything I can tell or show my Mum? I’ve read a lot on trans and women’s right but not much on non binary and don’t really know where to start with this minefield. I guess I’d like to educate myself too.

You don’t get to use it for women who don’t want it applied, no.

Maybe you just need to read my posts more slowly and think harder about them.

I've already given them way more thought than they merit.

Crikey.

These are quotes from another blog entry.

"I have repeatedly been called transphobic for asking that intersex people are not conflated with trans identities, as this silences our voices, causes public confusion about our needs and concerns and even leads to the groups that support us losing out on desperately needed funding. I have been told that I am a right-wing authoritarian in league with white supremacists, mainly because I think it is important to listen to the voices of mostly left-wing women in the UK, with long histories of social justice activism and working with vulnerable people. These are absurd accusations and are similarly used to silence many women and their groups.

I believe that anyone who identifies as trans should be supported and free to live without stigma and discrimination – and I fully support any adult who chooses to transition, if this allows them to live in the way that is best for them. However, I also believe that I deserve my voice to be heard and my own story to be told."

[...]

"Intersex people are a diverse group and this is represented in our needs. However, most us have a sex easily identified at birth and learn to live with our different body & are happy to stay in the sex in which we grew up. Although a few intersex people may choose to identify in different ways, this is not a priority for most – and although sensitive and inclusive language is vital, pronouns and third sex markers are rarely a priority issue. There are rare occasions when it is extremely difficult to determine the sex of an infant or when a difference in sex characteristics can be associated with an underlying life threatening medical condition. These children and their families should not have their complex histories used or weaponised, without any consideration to the significant trauma they will possibly have experienced."

Full thing here
differently-normal.com/2020/06/10/example-post-3/

Report, report, report! No compelling of speech going on here by having women repeatedly deleted for saying what the think. DARVOtastic.

Women are generally not comfortable with too many masculine physical characteristics. Ask any woman with excessive facial hair. Most women are also not comfortable being perceived as men by everyone either.

Are you comparing women having excessive facial hair due to hormonal imbalances to having a penis and testicles?!

Both trans women and women who don't happen to be trans (if only there was a word for that) experience sexism. The amount varies from person to person. A girl who doesn't happen to be trans who is born into a liberal feminist family in Denmark, will arguably suffer less sexism in her life than a passing trans woman in Bangladesh.

You said

young transitioners are subject to the same sexism as girls who don't happen to be trans because no one can tell they are trans.

No, you are wrong, your assertion is incorrect.

You are now bringing transwomen again young girls into the discussion. That is a sleight of hand.

I don't believe you have any idea what sexist discrimination young females actually experience. No matter where they are. You are simply making assumptions and handwaving away the sexist discrimination that still exists in the world, regardless of the country, for females. Those born with a body formed to produce large gametes regardless of whether or not they do.

I am sure that many parent's on this forum can fill you in though.

By the way, do you understand that there are people who have a habit of discriminating against young females by never acknowledging the significant health risks for medical transitioning.

'in against' not 'again'

That would imply trans women were somehow not women.

They aren't. If they were they could be pregnant but the last time I checked there was no birth canal in a penis.

The very existence of males and females explains our existence and also allows us to have this discussion in the first place. Denying biology and claiming that black is white and vice versa means doesn't change that. How someone presents is entirely separate from biological reality.

I am a woman. Despite my excessive body hair and active sweat glands I am entirely female. I am a binary despite other women, and some men, having considerably less body hair than me. I can get pregnant. I have bled practically every month since I was 11. But I like masculine clothes. I don't have big boobs. I like dresses too. I am not a stereotype, but I am still a woman. Because biology.

Transwomen are men who don't conform, and they should absolutely be able to not conform. But that doesn't mean their biology is anything other than male.

This is another compelling quote, that is highly relevant to this thread. She's right, the double standards are inhumane.

There are now numerous guides for schools that talk about the best practice for supporting transgender young people. These all talk about the trauma of being misgendered or the pain that can be caused by not respecting pronouns. We are told that not affirming someone’s gender is an act of violence and can lead to young people attempting suicide. The latest advice from Stonewall also talks about “listening to the child or young person and following their lead and preferences”. The Trans Inclusion Toolkit from Allsorts states “Follow the lead of the child, young person and if appropriate their family”.

It is hard to understand why people promoting these guides on how to best support trans young people, do not share the same empathy for children & young people with different sex development. One recent comment stated that those of us arguing that it is wrong to force a third sex narrative onto all intersex people, have a “fear of being othered away from our female safety nets”. This seemed to dismiss any of the trauma & real loss that many intersex women have experienced. Born and raised as girls and then finding out as young teens that they could not have children & could have difficulty having sex due to lack of vaginal depth – as well as finding out about your chromosomes and internal testes. You do feel ripped away from everything you thought was true about yourself. It takes time to process this and grieve for these very real losses, before being able to put yourself back together again in a way that you can feel positive about living with a different body. This can take time and patience and it is essential that anyone working with children and families facing these issues, is able to be compassionate and sensitive to their needs. The current trend to other intersex people as a third sex or neither male or female, offers newly diagnosed children & families, none of the same empathy and understanding that is considered vitally important when supporting young people with gender dysphoria. Information sent to schools, often includes the Genderbread Person or Gender Unicorn, which has intersex listed as a third sex, alongside ‘other’. The Allsorts Toolkit references intersex, although the information they provide is misleading and even inaccurately implies that many intersex people transition as they have been misdiagnosed in infancy.

So gender identity is at best a secondary sexual characteristic that sometimes doesn't align with your bio sex? Why does it get to be the determining factor of sex? A male with a "female gender identity" is no more female than a male with gynaecomastia is female.

Yes - trans women don't "change sex" because they were already female. That's the whole reason they had to transition.

So transwomen are already female. I thought they had the wrong body? Female brain in the wrong body?

No, wait, you are saying female brain and female body, but a feeling somehow that their body is wrong, nonetheless? Or not?

Yes - trans women don't "change sex" because they were already female.

Does biological reality feature? Female is XX not XY - how does that fit in

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]I think the complex reality of being born with a DSD, going through childhood surgery, being raised by a family who have been told to lie to you, and how you might realise, is being massively oversimplified in this thread.

Here is one woman's story of how she only discovered the truth when her GP told her, after she was so old she'd finished university!

differently-normal.com/2020/08/03/tale-of-a-good-gp/[/quote]
Such an interesting read. Thanks for posting.

Shizuku no, we we not fine.

Habe you any idea how many females have entered a female space, seen you, and promptly left?

I have had to do so many times whwn I have entered a female space and encountered males.

When a male enters a female space it doesnt make the male female, it makes the space mixed sex.

The rest of my posts have been deleted so please feel free to keep reporting and get me blocked... Maybe one day you will get all the female spaces and people like me can have spaces for XX people.

trans women don't "change sex" because they were already female. That's the whole reason they had to transition.

Have we had this conversation before? In what way is a transwoman already a female when a female has the body formed from birth around the production of large gametes, regardless of whether they produce those gametes, have produced large gametes or ever will produce those large gametes.

Please provide evidence to support your assertion. And this might help too. I know that you appreciate statements from Endrocrine specialists.

academic.oup.com/edrv/advance-article/doi/10.1210/endrev/bnaa034/6159361#.YG386Eqj1v4.twitter

And thanks again for bringing such great points to the thread that allow us to post some excellent links. It really does help everyone reading to get a better understanding of what the discussion is all about.

Just finished reading that link Purgatory, I am keen to read more. So, thanks again.

@PheasantPlucker1

Shizuku no, we we not fine.

Habe you any idea how many females have entered a female space, seen you, and promptly left?

I have had to do so many times whwn I have entered a female space and encountered males.

When a male enters a female space it doesnt make the male female, it makes the space mixed sex.

The rest of my posts have been deleted so please feel free to keep reporting and get me blocked... Maybe one day you will get all the female spaces and people like me can have spaces for XX people.

The breezy 'you were fine', is a theme though.

All the girls in that video posted a while back were also supposedly 'fine', yet, the transgirl looked into the camera and said 'Maybe the younger girls weren't, but what could they do. Nothing!'

I have seen similar breezy, statements appearing recently on threads. Those statements do a great deal of carrying the load for the readers following these threads.

Those statement speak very clearly.

Shizuku - nope - you didn't even try to answer. Genuinely not sure why I bothered to try to understand the trans orthodoxy, won't bother again.

@HecatesCatsInFancyHats

Well, you might need to explain it better if you want to take people with you.

This. Ideally without reference to white people being black and biological fact being nazism

@HecatesCatsInFancyHats

Report, report, report! No compelling of speech going on here by having women repeatedly deleted for saying what the think. DARVOtastic.

Was just thinking that

Maybe you just need to read my posts more slowly and think harder
Male person patronising a more intelligent female person. Nothing new under the Heavens.

Trans people don't "adopt" their identities, they just notice what their identities are.
How does that work - does A look in the mirror one day and say "fuck me, I've got a new identity. Seems I'm not a 25 year old man anymore but I'm really a woman"? What does A do with that information since A has never had a minute of being treated as the other sex (that new identity) and has had no socialisation based on that sex? In what way does A "notice what the identity is"?

Gender identity is not a matter of choice - there's nothing you can do about it - it is what it is. Can't be defined, can't be quantified, based on stereotypes, and yet "it is what it is". If I identified as an extremely wealthy woman I know what the bank staff would say if I walked in and asked to withdraw £50,000 from one of my accounts.

oops.

academic.oup.com/edrv/advance-article/doi/10.1210/endrev/bnaa034/6159361#.YG386Eqj1v4.twitter

Here is a clicky link.