Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Original poster

Sex surrogates — not sure how I feel about this

123 replies

FrankensteinIsTheMonster · 16/04/2021 19:02

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-56737828

Does anyone have links to feminist discussion on sex surrogates, or have thoughts on the ramifications of this kind of, well, sex work I suppose, though a very specific subgenre of it? I'm trying to begin thinking through this in an organised way, but coming across all kinds of stumbling blocks.

OP posts:

transsloth · 16/04/2021 19:04

What's there to think about? To my mind sex is not a job, so this is just as ridiculous as any other kind of "sex work".

OhHolyJesus · 16/04/2021 19:10

I know how I think about. It's disgusting.

I shall be complaining.

www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints

Original poster

FrankensteinIsTheMonster · 16/04/2021 19:10

Well, I guess all the usual points of discussion, but with a different slant because of the rehab and professional context. As I tried to explain, it's all very loose in my mind at the moment so I was wondering if anyone was familiar with any resources on the topic from feminist points of view.

OP posts:

risefromyourgrave · 16/04/2021 19:12

There is a podcast about this on the BBC Documentary feed. I’ve not listened to it yet, but I was a bit when I read the description.

GNCQ · 16/04/2021 19:16

Jewish men aren't immune to the idea of sexual services, no men are. I'm sure it's a very popular concept for Israeli men. I'm sure British men would love it too. It's a bit desperate to reword sex work as relationship education though, or whatever the hell they say.

I am sure it's all very woke.

StillWeRise · 16/04/2021 19:17

All the cases cited involve a man receiving the services of a woman, is my first thought.

teezletangler · 16/04/2021 19:19

Interesting how the article doesn't mention (intentionally, no doubt) what percentage of clients are men. Close to 100% I'd guess.

There was a film called The Sessions about a sex surrogate and a man with polio. It was an interesting movie but ultimately I thought the whole thing felt a bit gross.

AssassinatedBeauty · 16/04/2021 19:21

My initial thoughts are that it is horrific that Israel has such violence within its state as to produce a steady stream of young soldiers so badly injured. Secondly it occurred to me that all the examples are of men using women, I wonder why that is?

SmokedDuck · 16/04/2021 19:22

There was a lot written about sex surrogates, I think it was the late 80s? I haven't seen much about them since then, but you might try looking for some older articles or books.

RabbitOfCaerbannog · 16/04/2021 19:22

"Although critics liken this to prostitution, in Israel it has become accepted to the extent that the state covers the cost for soldiers with injuries that affect their ability to have sex."

Rename it all you like. Critics call it prostitution because it is prostitution.

SmokedDuck · 16/04/2021 19:22

Maybe the beginning of the 90s, now that I think about it.

RabbitOfCaerbannog · 16/04/2021 19:23

Change the names of all the things. They remain the same things.

QuentinBunbury · 16/04/2021 19:28

I think it is a story that starts with an assumption that sex is a basic need for men. So they deserve it as part of rehab. And that is a dangerous assumption because it is used to explain away so much of mens damaging sexual behaviours (rape, sexual assault, use of porn and prostitutes).
Totally to be expected under the patriarchy but not ok imo.

TheQueenIsDeaf · 16/04/2021 19:40

Prostitution by any other name would still be as exploitative.

NiceGerbil · 16/04/2021 19:54

I've read about this before, years ago. It was the Netherlands i think. Similar sort of thing.

I have very very mixed feelings about it indeed. My instinct says no. But I feel that if a person has had a massive change to their sexual function, or has something happen to make them very scared, then maybe there's a place for it. Dunno.

I think I fall on the side of no because as with articles about how some men with disabilities need to pay for sex, or about women being called for men in various types of residential care...

Where are the female clients? Women get injured, have sex issues, are in residential care. Women have sexual desire. What are the numbers of women having this service compared to men?

Because if there's a massive difference, and I suspect there is. Then the reason isn't the palatable reasons given. The reason is that men are seen as having a right and a need to sex with other people. And that's not good.

RabbitOfCaerbannog · 16/04/2021 19:56

It's always based on the power imbalance of men having a need and women being the vessel which satisfies that need.

Delphinium20 · 16/04/2021 19:59

My teen DD tried to argue that sex work for disabled men was altruistic...

Next up, we can expect sex work for those poor elderly men in nursing care.

Clymene · 16/04/2021 20:01

The article says people but all the clients are men and all the surrogates are women.

No one needs sex - men are just as able to survive without a sex,I've as women are. This is just another way for men to exploit women's bodies, but with a veneer of therapy.

It's as grim as the men trawling the streets of Holbeck

Clymene · 16/04/2021 20:02

FFS autocorrect

Original poster

FrankensteinIsTheMonster · 16/04/2021 20:04

@Delphinium20

My teen DD tried to argue that sex work for disabled men was altruistic...

Next up, we can expect sex work for those poor elderly men in nursing care.

I wonder if maybe it feels different if it's defined as a limited-time intervention through which the client is meant to learn how to deal with their problem vs. sex provided on a long-term basis i.e. as a means to an end rather than an end in itself?

OP posts:

Delphinium20 · 16/04/2021 20:07

@FrankensteinIsTheMonster Not sure, but she was arguing it from the perspective of "poor disabled man, no one will have sex with him." and I said that's a slippery slope when you think, as PP noted, "only women can be a vessel for that need."

HavelockVetinari · 16/04/2021 20:09

@StillWeRise

All the cases cited involve a man receiving the services of a woman, is my first thought.

This.

Delphinium20 · 16/04/2021 20:11

Also, sex as a "need" is not on the same level as food, water, shelter, medicine, etc. needs. As much as I love sex, the lack of it is not even equivalent to other emotional needs such as the lack of friendship or family connections.

But then maybe my equating sex with "emotional needs" is just my healthy view on sexuality rearing it's positive head...

HavelockVetinari · 16/04/2021 20:12

@Delphinium20

My teen DD tried to argue that sex work for disabled men was altruistic...

Next up, we can expect sex work for those poor elderly men in nursing care.

I found it really difficult working with learning-disabled men as a carer as a teenager during school holidays (from age 18). I had to help with personal care, but if the patient started masturbating or touching me the instructions were to leave the room if it was safe to do so, allow them to 'finish' in private and then go back in and carry on. I found it really upsetting TBH.

Sexual "surrogacy" is much worse.

BilboBercow · 16/04/2021 20:13

It's state funded prostitution

Flip

1 2 3 4 5