Sex surrogates — not sure how I feel about this

[FrankensteinIsTheMonster]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-56737828

Does anyone have links to feminist discussion on sex surrogates, or have thoughts on the ramifications of this kind of, well, sex work I suppose, though a very specific subgenre of it? I'm trying to begin thinking through this in an organised way, but coming across all kinds of stumbling blocks.

Julie Bindel has written about this in her book, The Pimping of Prostitution.

Disabled men's 'need' for sex is held out as a fig leaf by the pro prostitution lobby. It's not dissimilar to the way mentally distressed children are held out by the pro gender lobby. In both cases, the aim is to elicit empathy and to discourage critical thinking.

Calling them sex surrogates doesn't disguise the fact it's prostitution. These women (and I suspect they all are) are selling their sexual services to men (I'm guessing all men) .

Whether you think prostitution should be legalised is another discussion but this is trying to justify the sex trade, even if they are specialists.

@NiceGerbil

The things from the Netherlands i read it's the therapist who has sex with the client.

That's interesting… it's not really very clear in the article I linked but it seems like the approach this organisation takes is to separate out the roles of therapist and, for want of a better term, practice partner.

It all makes me feel very uncomfortable either way; the recontextualisation of paid access to a woman's body feels like a manipulation for the purposes of acceptability, a loophole.

I'm not for this kind of therapy, but I don't think it's terribly comparable to the idea of providing sexual partners for the disabled because they "need" sex.

The idea is that for those who have physical or psychological barriers in sexual relationships, that therapy should be available to them. I don't think that part is particularly controversial. A person who has a terrible injury may need to relearn how to do all kinds of normal things and sometimes the help of a person with some expertise is useful. Similarly with emotional blocks around sexual intimacy, I've heard of these kinds of approaches being used to help someone who was abused, for example, and could not learn to relax during sex.

The difficulty is the leap from talk therapy or even something more practical to actually engaging in some kind of sexual activity, either with the therapist or someone working for the therapist. As opposed to having a partner with whom they might practice the advice of the therapist. I can understand the logic of doing so - it might take of a certain amount of pressure, or would work for someone with no partner. But I think it crosses a line that shouldn't be crossed.

Google says that the USA has about 70 sex surrogates, and about 20 of those are men.

@Delphinium20

My teen DD tried to argue that sex work for disabled men was altruistic...

Next up, we can expect sex work for those poor elderly men in nursing care.

I have worked in a couple of care homes where this was quite normal. Sex workers would be booked up by the residents or their families and the old guys would pay them.

There is also a facility for severely disable men near me - I know some of the staff there and apparently the management organises visits from sex workers for the men who want it.

I guess if everyone knows what they are getting out of it, I have no objections.

I have worked in a couple of care homes where this was quite normal. Sex workers would be booked up by the residents or their families and the old guys would pay them.

Since elderly women outnumber elderly men by factors in most care homes, how did the women feel about this? Because I'd be totally disgusted and feel very uncomfortable in my home.

I expect it was all done discreetly. The woman inmates wouldn't know who visits a man in his room.

Regard there being 70 sex surrogates in America, there are doubtless many more prostitutes than 70who perform those duties.

Inmates?

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jul/09/sex-offender-released-from-wa-prison-and-given-conditional-access-to-prostitutes
I am truly shocked, and very angry about this.
This man is considered too dangerous to be around other people because of his 'urges'. So the solution is to ameliorate the risk by 'giving' him a worthless un-woman sex worker to use instead of raping whoever he happens to meet? What a marvellous example of justice.

Sorry that should have been Un-woman.
Too cross to read 're instructions properly.

I don’t believe that physical intimacy in the context of a loving relationship is likely to be improved by separating the physical side entirely from affection, bonding and well, a loving relationship and making it all about performance and techniques.

It strikes me as yet further encroachment of the commodification of human bodies (specifically women’s) and pornification into every aspect of society. It perpetuates the idea that orgasmic satisfaction with another human being is a human right, but how can that be so, if we all have the rights to bodily integrity and bodily autonomy?

Periods of time without orgasmic pleasure shared with another human being should not be seen as abnormal, a crisis, or a breach of human rights surely?

Soldiers being rewarded with “comfort women” has a long history and this just looks like trying to sanitise it and make the women providing it feel good about themselves for being kind and caring.

It's always based on the power imbalance of men having a need and women being the vessel which satisfies that need

This. What I want to know is where all the training is for the men who are extremely bad at providing pleasure to women?

Where is all the interventions to help the women who aren't being sexually satisfied because their partners aren't any good?

Women's lack of sexual fulfillment just never seems to be raised as an issue does it....

Women's lack of sexual fulfillment just never seems to be raised as an issue does it....

To realise exactly how unimportant women are, I remember reading on here that the contraceptive pill often has the side-effect of reducing a woman's libido. And that isn't considered a problem, because everything's fine if men can have consequence-free sex.

Just agreeing with everyone apart from starrynight. You can prettify it any way you want but it's still prostitution.

Just an aside but the article about Holland says 1.7 million Dutch people have a moderate or severe disability. That's 10% of the population. I find that difficult to believe- unless "disability" is being stretched to breaking point in the same way the SNP is using it to select list candidates.

@DaisiesandButtercups put it very well.

@MrsTerryPratchett

There's a massive difference between an accommodation so that someone can have sex with a consenting unpaid partner and a sex worker being supplied so that someone can have sex with them.

Do people really not see the difference? One is basically OT and the other is prostitution. A little different.

I have name changed to comment.

I was saddened tonight to read on a FB group for OT's that there is an overwhelming consensus that this is a good thing. I kept thinking maybe I am 'prudish' but then no, I can support occupational roles without enabling harm towards women. If it is acceptable to refer an injured soldier, why not a young man with severe anxiety or a man paralysed after a car crash. Men do not have a right to sex, whatever the circumstances.

I cannot and will not agree with an intervention that causes harm to another person, and is in conflict with my sense of professional integrity.

That's really disappointing. It always comes back to this: to meet these needs we need to use something. What would we be using? Women. What is the end? An individual with a healthy approach to relationships who has come to terms with their condition? Or someone who uses women for sex?

Where is the therapy for the millions of women who have childbirth injuries and/or trauma that negatively impact their enjoyment of sex?
It all about the menz as usual.

The therapist is usually a separate person to the surrogate. As mentioned with the CBT example earlier, like any therapy there are tasks to do in between sessions and it is the same with this. The surrogate helps the person get in touch with their bodies and sensations in a safe way so they have increased knowledge and confidence to have sexual relationships in the future. It is a means to an end (that of leading a full life) rather than the end itself (having a shag). In the article originally posted it was all about men, but in real life it is not. Sex surrogates are not usually prostitutes, but people committed to disabled rights. The problem here is the slant the article took I think. As I have said before, why shouldnt disabled people get assistance with this if people are willing to help them of their own free will?

@QpopTYUIop9

Where is the therapy for the millions of women who have childbirth injuries and/or trauma that negatively impact their enjoyment of sex? It all about the menz as usual.

In a freely funded and open society, that would be really helpful. As I have said before, there are male surrogates too.

why shouldnt disabled people get assistance with this if people are willing to help them of their own free will?

Are those people helping out of altruism, or because they're being paid? It's the latter isn't it. That's why this is just another marketplace trading women's bodies. Sexual intercourse is not a human right.

In a freely funded and open society, that would be really helpful. As I have said before, there are male surrogates too.

In a patriarchy I suspect it's much more rare. Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary?

In other words, a sex slave?

In what world does a woman's right to bodily autonomy trump the pseudo-Schoenberg that need need to fuck someone in order to heal. I'm furious about this.