NHS staff invitation to menopause workshop to people who menstruate!

[sunshineandhappy]

I received a generic email from the well being team at the nhs trust I am employed by inviting me to a managing menopause workshop which was open to 'people who menstruate or people who will go through the menopause'.
This was my reply I was disappointed to see the following phrase ‘those who menstruate or those who will go through the menopause ‘ in the below email. The correct phrase for the target audience should surely include the word women, even if the other phrasing needs to be used as well, as this clumsy phrasing, whilst appearing to be inclusive to a minority, is actually exclusive to the way the vast majority of the target audience for this seminar may feel. I do not want to be reduced to being a person who menstruates or a person who will go through the menopause, I am a woman, an adult human female. I hope my opinion will be considered in the spirit in which it is meant, as all groups matter, and all relevant individuals should be considered when generic emails are being sent to a large number of staff.'
We will wait to see whether I receive any response

So not people who are currently going through the menopause? This is specifically for pre-menopausal women?

This nonsense seems to never end.

That "or" is confusing.

People who menstruate "or" who will go through the menopause.

It's not an either or thing, is it? If you are a menstruator, at some point presumably you will be a menopausist.

@NecessaryScene1

So not people who are currently going through the menopause? This is specifically for pre-menopausal women?

Exactly.

Fgs. I assume medical staff no longer talk about 'the broken leg in bed 4', so why the hell can't they recognise 'people who go through the menopause' for the dehumanising crap it is. Women are more than a collection of bodily functions. Hope you get a reply.

I hope you get a reply. For reasons already stated it A, makes no sense. B, is dehumanising.

To be fair to the trust the information in the workshop is mainly education about the perimenopause, I don't have an issue with the target audience, as much as how they are described.

@sunshineandhappy

I received a generic email from the well being team at the nhs trust I am employed by inviting me to a managing menopause workshop which was open to 'people who menstruate or people who will go through the menopause'. This was my reply I was disappointed to see the following phrase ‘those who menstruate or those who will go through the menopause ‘ in the below email. The correct phrase for the target audience should surely include the word women, even if the other phrasing needs to be used as well, as this clumsy phrasing, whilst appearing to be inclusive to a minority, is actually exclusive to the way the vast majority of the target audience for this seminar may feel. I do not want to be reduced to being a person who menstruates or a person who will go through the menopause, I am a woman, an adult human female. I hope my opinion will be considered in the spirit in which it is meant, as all groups matter, and all relevant individuals should be considered when generic emails are being sent to a large number of staff.' We will wait to see whether I receive any response

Will they invite 'people with penises' to a talk on testicular cancer?

This phrasing reduces me to a lump of meat, I find it incredibly offensive.

I do not want to be reduced to being a person who menstruates or a person who will go through the menopause, I am a woman, an adult human female

Brava!

I think it's really important to stress that menstruation and menopause happen to women, who are fully human and have fully rounded personalities, lives, careers, activities, hobbies, families, friends, hopes & dreams. So menopause and menstruation happen within that fully human context.

We are not just our wombs; and we do more than bleed or flush.

So the term "people who menstruate" is reducing us to our genitals and a single biological function, and de-humanise women. It is an exclusionary and dehumanising term.

This is the reply!

'We know language can be an emotive subject and that gender language in particular has evolved a lot in recent times. We took advice from our Equality, Diversity and Inclusion specialists in relation to what terminology to use that reflected who these sessions were aimed at and had a lot of discussions before settling on this wording.

We appreciate it won’t suit everyone in the same way that saying they were for women won’t suit everyone - as indeed comments from staff reflected that when this was used previously.'

I've asked for my complaint to be referred to the equality diversity and inclusion specialists as I don't feel included by this.

@sunshineandhappy

This is the reply!

'We know language can be an emotive subject and that gender language in particular has evolved a lot in recent times. We took advice from our Equality, Diversity and Inclusion specialists in relation to what terminology to use that reflected who these sessions were aimed at and had a lot of discussions before settling on this wording.

We appreciate it won’t suit everyone in the same way that saying they were for women won’t suit everyone - as indeed comments from staff reflected that when this was used previously.'

I've asked for my complaint to be referred to the equality diversity and inclusion specialists as I don't feel included by this.

Good on you @sunshineandhappy

Interesting that they say they can't please everyone. So basically they are admitting to pleasing the smallest population who shout the loudest and to hell with women.

Keep us updated on further communications.

🦡🌈🤍

They should do two separate workshops, one for women and one for “menstruators or people who will go through the menopause”

That would be a way to please both groups

What on earth is wrong with saying that the workshop is for women and others who menstruate and/or will go through menopause?

Absolutely ridiculous & very exclusionary to refer to women in this way.

Well done for challenging it Op.

Fucking hell that’s Monty Python levels of absurd.

It makes no sense whatsoever to refer to advice given on the menopause to be offered to “people who menstruate”, given that the key measure of having gone through menopause is the cessation of menstruation. Given that the reason for the workshop is to support women with the practical and emotional difficulties this turbulent time can bring it is the very antithesis of “inclusive” to reduce women to the function that they’re losing, and possibly mourning.

“Hey, person, you’re not menstruating any more, but let me just remind you that you used to, before you stopped being fertile and young! Let me just underscore any sense of loss that you might feel by emphasising that”.

If there are people for whom the word “women” does not feel descriptive, but who are faced with issues around menopause, then the title of the workshop should be sufficient to provide the information they need. If there’s any additional needs there, then they could put a sentence at the end saying to contact the organiser if in doubt.

Please do keep at it. You’re right.

So they already had comments that women don't like it and they ignored those.

Ugh!

I hate this. Why has everything changed? To keep the one or two people happy who might otherwise be offended?

Why has everything changed? To keep the one or two people happy who might otherwise be offended?

Yup. But those who might be offended are men. Who are the default humans in every situation.

Well done OP for standing your ground.
They are tangling themselves up in knots of their own making. Idiots.

Well done for challenging. Couldn't agree with you more

Excellent e-mail and, unfortunately, the typical response. Women and their feeling don't matter, we are mere pieces of meat to be dehumanised at will. No wonder that Women's Health Issues within the NHS and medicine generally is in such a parlous and dangerous state.

Who exactly won't these sessions suit if the word women is used? Why are their needs and wishes considered vital enough to override women?

Several years ago now, a transwoman poster here to earnestly explain to us how they had been through the menopause, and was most sniffy when I declined to validate the experience as authentic.

They had had “six months of hormone hell” due to “too much oestrogen”, and their doctor had told them it was “effectively the menopause”.

My kindness chip failed to function correctly that day, I can tell you. I nearly wrecked my rep as a calm, polite, reasonable poster

How about a strategic comma? So... "this workshop is for women and other people, who menstruate and/or will go through menopause". I really hope there aren't people who fetishise menopause, it's a grim thought.