Ireland will no longer be providing single sex toilets in primary and secondary schools!!!

[XXSex]

I am LIVID!!! New technical guidance has been released.
www.education.ie/en/School-Design/Technical-Guidance-Documents/Current-Technical-Guidance/sdg-02-06-sanitary-facilities-april-2021-.pdf

All mixed sex. Hand basin outside the WC (WAH your bloody hands in front of boys). Doors down to the floor (any one else see an issue in a mixed sex school with mixed sex toilets with this set up)

What the were the department thinking?!!!

Yes it's all lovely and problem free

Except for all the problems mentioned here.

The thing is, not looking at or talking about problems, or people having the problems, doesn't vanish them. It really doesn't. Inclusion doesn't mean only looking at the nice bits and pretending you can't see the rest.

@MichelleofzeResistance

My understanding at present is that female children cannot identify in to independent boys only schools, Eton being an example, but a number of independent girls schools have accepted male children.

Well, it's all about 'budge up girls - you don't matter.'

Surprised at that regarding indie schools, after all they claim they are are single sex, I wonder how they stand legally with this. I would be removing my DD if they allowed a born male to attend the school and would look at legal options. There was a girl who was transitioning who left the school, not sure whose decision that was.

Will be interesting to see if teenagers with GRCs find that it works equally well for both sexes in identifying into single sex schools. I suspect like prisons there will be sex based reasons why it won't.

Oh so because we’ve got to go woke girls oh sorry can’t call them that now will be subject to even worse worrying and bullying. I’m livid just livid. I remember my early periods and that was as in women’s toilets the worry etc.

I have been having periods for 34 years I can honestly say I've never gone to a sink with bloody hands. You wipe them with a tissue. Bullying is a major issue in closed off toilets, I think straight on the corridor or clear lines of site is essential

@saltedcaramelchocolate

Disabled toilets are for people with a disability. Periods are not a disability.

Never been a queue thankfully for any disabled toilet in this school. Thankfully I also have noticed that 99% of girls who want to use toilets use the cubicle toilets and no issues have been reported.

@MichelleofzeResistance

Will be interesting to see if teenagers with GRCs find that it works equally well for both sexes in identifying into single sex schools. I suspect like prisons there will be sex based reasons why it won't.

What are you suggesting here?

That anyone who identifies as a different gender from their sex is going to rape women?

@moochingtothepub

I have been having periods for 34 years I can honestly say I've never gone to a sink with bloody hands. You wipe them with a tissue. Bullying is a major issue in closed off toilets, I think straight on the corridor or clear lines of site is essential

I am the same in my 18 years of periods. I’ve also never seen women in single sex toilets come to the sinks with blood of their hands

Whether there is a queue or not is irrelevant. Disabled toilets are for people with a disability.

Thankfully I also have noticed that 99% of girls who want to use toilets use the cubicle toilets and no issues have been reported

No issues reported means nothing.

We know girls do not report assults etc

They are not believed.
They are victim blamed
They are conditioned ro put others needs first ahead of their own discomfort.

We can see fir example in rape statistics that not all are reported and the small number reported, well only 1 percent ir so results in a prosecution. This is what girls are up against. They will not report. They don't want to disappoint and they will trust the adults around them. If adults tell them they have no rights to privacy and that the feelings of everyone else come first then that's what they will sadly believe

@saltedcaramelchocolate

Whether there is a queue or not is irrelevant. Disabled toilets are for people with a disability.

Yes this! People with disabilities fought like hell to get these and it grinds my gears that along with single sex toilets, they’re being thrown under the bus too

@saltedcaramelchocolate

Whether there is a queue or not is irrelevant. Disabled toilets are for people with a disability.

Sorry, I should have said whilst they have similar characteristics to disabled toilets (I just referred to them as such as it’s easier, my mistake) they are not actually designated disabled. The sign on the door just says “toilet”

@Biscuitsanddoombar how do you propose we police non visible disabilities?

@Whatwouldscullydo

Thankfully I also have noticed that 99% of girls who want to use toilets use the cubicle toilets and no issues have been reported

No issues reported means nothing.

We know girls do not report assults etc

They are not believed.
They are victim blamed
They are conditioned ro put others needs first ahead of their own discomfort.

We can see fir example in rape statistics that not all are reported and the small number reported, well only 1 percent ir so results in a prosecution. This is what girls are up against. They will not report. They don't want to disappoint and they will trust the adults around them. If adults tell them they have no rights to privacy and that the feelings of everyone else come first then that's what they will sadly believe

I honestly would like to ask, if men are so keen to rape women in schools - are they really going to be put off by a closed off single sex toilet door? Surely a girl going to the toilet in closed off single sex toilets during a lesson where she could be the only one there is more vulnerable to rape or sexual assault by a predator than open plan cubicles where class teachers and staff can keep an eye on who’s going into cubicles?

Assh the old " they will do it anyway" trope.

Noted

@Whatwouldscullydo

Assh the old " they will do it anyway" trope.

Noted

Ah the “doesn’t have any actual argument against what I’ve said” trope x

I honestly find these GC forums so amusing but bizarre at the same time. Non-GC a folks question them on their beliefs and they put patronisingly put us down to mantras and tropes and can’t actually explain themselves further? Really helps demonstrate how solid your view is... Honestly bizarre.

Well In other countries charities campaign for single sex provision for girls.

Is there something different about western boys and men?

Assults are more likely in mixed sex environments. What benefit to girls is a mixed sex toilet?

@Whatwouldscullydo

Well In other countries charities campaign for single sex provision for girls.

Is there something different about western boys and men?

Assults are more likely in mixed sex environments. What benefit to girls is a mixed sex toilet?

Some countries also have higher rates of gender based violence than we do. And before this gets misconstrued, of course I am well aware that the UK has gender based violence - but less than say, India.

Certainly in my experience, girls have reported a huge reduction in intimidating behaviour from the same sex and bullying in the toilets at school. 204 girls (in a school with 310 girls) came forward to actively campaign for them to stay that way as opposed to changing them back to single sex toilets. Oddly from the other side, 95 boys campaigned and only 14 girls to change them back. So they clearly do have benefits to girls.

No particular problem with individual self contained toilets, including a washbasin & mirror, opening out on to a corridor (except I suspect they'd be whiffy).

Why would they need to be mixed sex? Why not have toilets like this for each sex, in separate areas?

You will see however from the links posted elsewhere in the thread we have a massive problem with sexual assults and sexual harassment in state akd private schools.

Also normalisation of no privacy is not a good lesson to be teaching children.

Sharing with classmates they have none for years is hugely different to being alone in a train station after work in the event and having to share that space with a large adult male stranger.

There's a word we sadly cannot use when speaking about the process in normalisation of dangerous situations that begins as children that they take throughout being adults

jul26m

Will be interesting to see if teenagers with GRCs find that it works equally well for both sexes in identifying into single sex schools. I suspect like prisons there will be sex based reasons why it won't.

What are you suggesting here?

That anyone who identifies as a different gender from their sex is going to rape women?

No, of course not, strange thing to say. I expect what Michelle means is that it would not be safe for a transboy to be in a single sex boys school just as it would not be safe for a transman to be housed with male prisoners, for obvious reasons.

That anyone who identifies as a different gender from their sex is going to rape women?

Rather radical interpretation of the text?

As I said: Will be interesting to see if teenagers with GRCs find that it works equally well for both sexes in identifying into single sex schools. I suspect like prisons there will be sex based reasons why it won't.

I suspect teenagers born female will have less opportunity and equality in being able to access single sex schools for boys than teenagers born male will have in being able to access single sex schools for girls.

And I suspect that if this is the case, it will be down to the same reasons that the govt will not under any circumstances place a TM into the male prison estate. Because the safety of the TM could not be reasonably managed in a male environment. Because sex continues to matter.

@malloo

jul26m

Will be interesting to see if teenagers with GRCs find that it works equally well for both sexes in identifying into single sex schools. I suspect like prisons there will be sex based reasons why it won't.

What are you suggesting here?

That anyone who identifies as a different gender from their sex is going to rape women?

No, of course not, strange thing to say. I expect what Michelle means is that it would not be safe for a transboy to be in a single sex boys school just as it would not be safe for a transman to be housed with male prisoners, for obvious reasons.

Well no the reasons aren’t always obvious as many GC threads perpetuate this idea that many trans women are just transitioning so they can sexually assault women in toilets etc.

In prison, everyone is fundamentally a criminal and many could have a violent past. This is not the case in schools - so I was unsure what exactly @MichelleofzeResistance was getting at.