Page 5 | Chauvin trial re George Floyd - Sky News

chilling19 · 2021-03-31T07:42:48+00:00

Is anyone watching this? With the really upsetting and unarguable against video footage I can't see how the defence can build a case. Also the baiting by the defence lawyer of the female EMT witness was horrendous, as was the judge telling her off. She held her ground though, as did the previous child (female) witnesses.

NiceGerbil · 02/04/2021 02:20

What on earth are you talking about? That's incredibly vague.

BrandineDelRoy · 02/04/2021 07:07

I definitely believe that racism played a part here, but not too many years ago a white woman was shot by these same police after she called them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting offJustineDamond

Floisme · 02/04/2021 07:31

I am also curious op as to why you chose Feminist Chat for this thread rather than say the News boards? Is there a specifically feminist angle to the case that you wanted to discuss?

littleburn · 02/04/2021 08:23

Well OP has not returned and now there's a whole bunch of 'it's not racism' messages all ready to be screen shot on the feminism board ...

Tibtom · 02/04/2021 08:30

I have not been following the trial but from this thread it seems the question is whether the drugs GF consumed immediately prior to his arrest, and subsequent restraint, were the cause of death and the restraint was immaterial to his death? It must be beyond reasonable doubt that this was not the case in order to convict?

ancientgran · 02/04/2021 09:03

@WinterIsGone

To me it beggars belief that anyone can seriously suggest that kneeling on a mans neck for 9 minutes has nothing to do with his death. This. Totally shocking.

I wonder if anyone who actually thinks that would like to demonstrate? If they are sure someone kneeling on their neck for 9 minutes wouldn't be a problem it would be OK wouldn't it.

ancientgran · 02/04/2021 09:05

@BrandineDelRoy

I definitely believe that racism played a part here, but not too many years ago a white woman was shot by these same police after she called them. [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting]]offJustineDamond

And the black officer who killed her was the only officer in that force convicted of murder after a fatality.

ancientgran · 02/04/2021 09:08

@Erkrie

I do appreciate being black can be an additional factor in the states. Which is why officer Daniels put out a series of videos on Facebook how to behave if someone gets pulled over. Which is very useful advice for anyone really. Get through the moment and deal with the rights and wrongs of it afterwards. But GF, I'm not sure. Mainly because it seems to be a police restraint method, and other men have died as a result of that too. Chauvin might be a racist. Or he might not be. I don't think the outcome of this case will provide that answer. An overhaul of policing methods and restraints clearly needs reviewing regardless.

In the trial yesterday it was said it is a police technique but you don't continue when the suspect is quiet (in this case they did not stop when he was quiet) or even when they are handcuffed (he was handcuffed before they even put him on the floor.)

The racism is a separate issue I think, the trial is about if Chauvin committed murder/manslaughter.

Tibtom · 02/04/2021 09:21

To me it beggars belief that anyone can seriously suggest that kneeling on a mans neck for 9 minutes has nothing to do with his death.
This. Totally shocking.

I wonder if anyone who actually thinks that would like to demonstrate? If they are sure someone kneeling on their neck for 9 minutes wouldn't be a problem it would be OK wouldn't it.

If he died as a result of the drugs then it could have nothing to do with his death but that doesn't mean it is a harmless act in itself. Just as stabbing someone after they had been poison - stabbing is a harmful, violent and potentially fatal act but if the person is already deceased it wouldn't be the cause of death. The defence don't need to sure it was definitely the drugs only that it might have been the drugs.

pabloescobarselasticband · 02/04/2021 09:28

Im in no way defending the police officer's behaviour but have you actually seen the whole footage from the beginning of the arrest? He was being difficult and they tried to sit him in the car, he refused and demanded to be put on the floor. He was clearly as high as a kite and behaving unpredictably.

MabelPines · 02/04/2021 10:44

If we are discussing this from a feminist perspective we could ask how would a female police officer restrain a person of GFS size and build, who was high and acting manic and being uncooperative ?

Are female officers given the training and equipment to do so safely ?

elgreco · 02/04/2021 11:32

I hate to be a pain in the hole but this thread is clearly in Feminism to get screen shots. It will only take one comment saying Not Racism for all GC feminists to be labelled racists and/ or white supremacists who are fully behind the patriarchy due to your white woman fragility.

TRAs have cleverly attached Themselves to BLM.

George Floyd was a man killed by another man and the OP has not come back.

It should be discussed. Somewhere else.

terryleather · 02/04/2021 11:39

Agree elgreco.

Cattenberg · 02/04/2021 11:53

If they can prove reasonable doubt as to cause of death, Chauvin will get off.

I don’t know much about US law, but under UK law, wouldn’t Chauvin still be guilty of attempted murder? There was a gruesome case several years ago in which a teenage boy “murdered” his sleeping grandmother by inflicting a non-survivable injury on her. However, in a bizarre twist of fate, the post-mortem showed that the grandmother had died of natural causes shortly before the attack.

Cattenberg · 02/04/2021 12:02

TRAs have cleverly attached Themselves to BLM.

I did see a video yesterday about trans rights in the UK, in which it was claimed that GC feminists exclude black women, disabled women and lesbians from their feminism. I have never ONCE seen a GC feminist do this and the interviewer should have challenged this claim. Sadly, she didn’t.

Soontobe60 · 02/04/2021 12:07

@pabloescobarselasticband

Im in no way defending the police officer's behaviour but have you actually seen the whole footage from the beginning of the arrest? He was being difficult and they tried to sit him in the car, he refused and demanded to be put on the floor. He was clearly as high as a kite and behaving unpredictably.

Oh well thats ok then. Clearly he deserved to be killed.😩 You absolutely are defending the police officer’s behaviour.

If he is found not guilty of murder on the grounds that he was following police training, then the whole police force should be held culpable. The people at the top of the chain of command must be held accountable for the behaviour of the people below them if they claim to be only ‘carrying out orders’.

Whether the officers involved at the scene are racist or not is actually irrelevant - the whole US police system is inherently racist. To deny that is to deny reality.

He should be found guilty, and sent to prison for a very long time. However, I can see that not happening. If you thought BLM protesters were angry last summer, watch this space for more outrage.

Tibtom · 02/04/2021 12:07

For murder or attempted murder in the uk you would have to be setting out to kill someone. I not sure they are trying to say that?

Tibtom · 02/04/2021 12:12

Whether the officers involved at the scene are racist or not is actually irrelevant - the whole US police system is inherently racist. To deny that is to deny reality.

He should be found guilty, and sent to prison for a very long time.

But he shouldn't be found guilty because the systems is racist. If he is found guilty it should be because of his actions.

Cattenberg · 02/04/2021 12:36

Tibtom, what do you think Chauvin expected to happen as a result of his actions? Passers by were warning him, yet he carried on. I couldn’t bear to watch the whole video, but apparently he carried on kneeling on George Floyd’s neck after Floyd had lost consciousness.

I don’t think the defence are arguing that Chauvin has a serious mental impairment. He must have known that if he didn’t stop kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, Floyd would die. Chauvin made the decision not to stop.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 02/04/2021 12:44

MabelPines has a good point

Police brutality can be seen as a further outworking of male violence

A female police officer I expect might try harder to talk Floyd down and use less aggressive methods as she knows she cannot rely on brute strength. Maybe more women in high U.K. positions in the police force would change the culture positively.

In U.K. MH settings it is increasingly being seen as a failure and a dangerous step to involve police when mentally ill people are aggressive after several black mentally ill men died due to police involvement. It is recognised that there should be other ways to de-escalate and manage aggression that are safer.

Tibtom · 02/04/2021 12:54

Cattenberg I have no idea, may be that GF would continue to lie quiet and still, may be that he would become unconscious? Maybe he was happy to inflict unnecessary harm? But as you say, he doesn't have a serious mental impairment so it seems unlikely that if he set out to kill someone he would think this was the most risk-free method (in terms of outcomes for himself). I suspect it likely he disregarded any pain or suffering he was inflicting and didn't think much more on the outcome beyond a satisfaction he had got his man.

Erkrie · 02/04/2021 12:54

Im in no way defending the police officer's behaviour but have you actually seen the whole footage from the beginning of the arrest? He was being difficult and they tried to sit him in the car, he refused and demanded to be put on the floor. He was clearly as high as a kite and behaving unpredictably

I watched it again last night, and it is so upsetting. I don't think it matters that he was high as a kite and behaving unpredictability. This is the nature of policing and some of the people that they need to manage will be presenting like this. The police force need to find a way to ensure that that person who has taken loads of drugs do not end up dead following arrest. Or at any rate, if they do end up dead, it shouldn't be because of something the police did, or didn't do that caused that. There must be other methods of restraining someone that doesn't involve a knee on the neck. It shouldn't be a recognised and legal strategy. At the very least the police lay themselves open to blame, and at the very worst, as in this case, they have a dead man, a murder trial, and questions that must be answered.

MabelPines · 02/04/2021 13:33

A female police officer I expect might try harder to talk Floyd down and use less aggressive methods as she knows she cannot rely on brute strength. Maybe more women in high U.K. positions in the police force would change the culture positively

I absolutely think it would.

In U.K. MH settings it is increasingly being seen as a failure and a dangerous step to involve police when mentally ill people are aggressive after several black mentally ill men died due to police involvement. It is recognised that there should be other ways to de-escalate and manage aggression that are safer.

And this he to be repeated, this his to be the focus- changing the culture, changing the methods used etc.

NiceGerbil · 02/04/2021 14:22

In the USA I think female officers are involved in these types of situations. If you're armed with a gun it changes the power dynamic.

Agree that the reason for this post being in feminism is... Well we just have to guess don't we.

AppleJane · 02/04/2021 14:28

When this case first hit the headlines I read that Floyd and Chauvin both knew each other personally as they had worked together as bouncers. But I've never seen this stated on the news.

Does anyone know if it is true?

It doesn't change what happened but it might explain why Chauvin thought he could get away with it.