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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Maya on Benjamin Boyce (with a great Mumsnet shout out)

98 replies

miri1985 · 30/03/2021 02:34

Highly recommend the whole thing but the Mumsnet shout out is at 1:02:48

OP posts:
adviceseekingnamechanger · 30/03/2021 07:09

Throw women of colour under a busHibari? I'm a woman of colour (awful phrase) myself. Not sure why you think we're throwing them under a bus but I'm sure you'll reply with your usual clear arguments.

Women of colour are over-represented in the prison population. I would argue you're the one throwing them under a bus by supporting that they should be housed with male-bodied sex offenders or indeed any man who would like to claim he was a woman. You would like to risk their safety and security for the sake of what? (And before you shriek that I hate trans people or something, this does not imply I think TW should be housed in the male estate; a third option is necessary)

Also, you clearly have no idea what Maya Forstater actually did. Enlighten us to how she's a liar?

SunsetBeetch · 30/03/2021 07:09

@rabbitwoman

What do you think the real world is, Hibari?

I work in a school.

I have transgender family members and friends.

What part of real life am I missing out on?

Twitter?
Datun · 30/03/2021 07:15

The fact that you think there's some kind of trans agenda...

You might want to tell that to the political lobbying lobby group of political lobbyists, stonewall, who campaigned to have all single sex exemptions removed from the equality act.

No agenda indeed 🙄

rabbitwoman · 30/03/2021 07:15

😊😊

I tweet!!

Hibari · 30/03/2021 07:15

@adviceseekingnamechanger

Throw women of colour under a busHibari? I'm a woman of colour (awful phrase) myself. Not sure why you think we're throwing them under a bus but I'm sure you'll reply with your usual clear arguments.

Women of colour are over-represented in the prison population. I would argue you're the one throwing them under a bus by supporting that they should be housed with male-bodied sex offenders or indeed any man who would like to claim he was a woman. You would like to risk their safety and security for the sake of what? (And before you shriek that I hate trans people or something, this does not imply I think TW should be housed in the male estate; a third option is necessary)

Also, you clearly have no idea what Maya Forstater actually did. Enlighten us to how she's a liar?

There have been two threads discussing voting for Lawrence bloody Fox for mayor of London because he doesn't like trans people.

Yes I consider voting for a racist arsehole as throwing women of colour under the bus. Yes I'm aware "not all gender crits." Grin

Re: Women of colour. Likewise and I and favour it over "BAME".

Hibari · 30/03/2021 07:17

@Datun

The fact that you think there's some kind of trans agenda...

You might want to tell that to the political lobbying lobby group of political lobbyists, stonewall, who campaigned to have all single sex exemptions removed from the equality act.

No agenda indeed 🙄

UK gets called "TERF Island," for a reason.
Datun · 30/03/2021 07:21

UK gets called "TERF Island," for a reason.

Ooh, forensic rebuttal 🙄

rabbitwoman · 30/03/2021 07:22

What strikes me is that the bar for transphobia is so low.....

I have seen friends of mine being beaten up for being gay.

My mate got smacked over the head with a telescopic truncheon for wanting to marry a Pakistani lady.

I was once involved in a round of job interviews where the best candidate was refused the job because she had nine Yr old twins and the manager did not believe she would commit to the role....

But transphobia is..... Sorry, we are worried about abusive men pretending to be transgender so they can be locked up in women's jails, can we discuss this please?

Sorry, biological men are stronger and faster than women, isn't it unfair to have them compete against each other?

Men really can't become women, but let's discuss the best way forward?..... Oh..... Blocked.....

NotBadConsidering · 30/03/2021 07:23

Maya is so great at calming explaining what actually happened. To face such abuse for believing in the material reality of the world is despicable.

LastRoloIsMine · 30/03/2021 07:26

UK gets called "TERF Island," for a reason.

I imagine you sticking your tongue out after saying this Hibari

boatyardblues · 30/03/2021 07:31

Was TERF Island a Benjamin Boyce wisecrack in his interview with Maya or is it actually a thing?

NotBadConsidering · 30/03/2021 07:33

@boatyardblues

Was TERF Island a Benjamin Boyce wisecrack in his interview with Maya or is it actually a thing?
I think he was asking about its genuine use as a abusive term by misogynists and Maya calmly explained it merely means women aren’t taking any shit and are refusing to be compelled into changes they don’t agree with.
adviceseekingnamechanger · 30/03/2021 07:35

Hibari I completely agree LF is a racist arsehole, and would never, ever vote for him. And also yes, BAME is even worse.

But you ignored what I wrote about women of colour in prison to complain about LF instead. Which is of course your right, but a fuller reply would be more persuasive, if it is your aim to educate, after all.

Usagi12 · 30/03/2021 07:38

Bit rich of Hibari to call other people obsessed. Here's a man who spends hours patrolling feminists boards to tell all the wimmin folk how wrong they are about everything 😂😂😂

WarOnWomen · 30/03/2021 07:42

Hi Bari

Throw women of colour under a bus

Really? Can you link to any threads on FWR board that highlights your opinion on this? Otherwise it sounds like you're making things up.

WarOnWomen · 30/03/2021 07:47

Oh seen that you already have. There were plenty of women on those threads who were pretty appalled at aligning themselves with LF.

Sophoclesthefox · 30/03/2021 07:47

I haven’t watched this interview yet, but hope to later today. Benjamin is an extremely thoughtful interviewer, and a nuanced thinker. It’s clearly too much for some people, but really that should function as a ringing endorsement rather than anything else Grin

NotBadConsidering · 30/03/2021 07:52

Maybe 71 minute interviews, full court rulings, medical journals etc are just too long and complicated for some people to engage with. It seems if there’s a tweet that, with confirmation bias, tells them what they want to hear about a certain subject, that’s all they need. It’s a bit 😞.

WarOnWomen · 30/03/2021 07:54

@Sophoclesthefox

I haven’t watched this interview yet, but hope to later today. Benjamin is an extremely thoughtful interviewer, and a nuanced thinker. It’s clearly too much for some people, but really that should function as a ringing endorsement rather than anything else Grin

Agreed. I find his interviewing style refreshing- it's not combative nor aggressive, his interviewees seem relaxed and he draws their views and arguments out without any stress.

aliasundercover · 30/03/2021 07:56

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aliasundercover · 30/03/2021 08:00

... unfortunately, Hibari’s many many subsequent post show how wrong I was.

I remember when I was about 14. If I was losing an argument I would shout ‘fascist’ or ‘racist’, thinking this somehow rescued my position. Seems some people don’t move much past that stage.

Helleofabore · 30/03/2021 08:05

@adviceseekingnamechanger

I actually really welcome it when Hibari posts. It gives me a chance to carefully assess the other side of the debate. Especially when her insights are so valuable, like calling something 'nonsense' while admitting to not even watching it. Really helps educate me on why I'm such a bigot for believing that biological sex is real, immutable, binary and a significant driver of horrific oppression that needs recognising and not be over-written by gender.
I was just about to post the same.

Well done Hibari. Are you certain you are not GC and just playing devil’s advocate with your posts? Because they usually do a great job of showing up the ideological nature of those who are applying for kindness while women’s and girl’s protections and rights are being slowly weakened, diluted and the language needed to describe them and our concerns eroded and dehumanized.

Never any substance, completely ill defined and illogical arguments that often are snide and aimed at shaming those discussing the conflicts of the rights being pressed forward on the rights that we seek to protect.

And it agains shows ‘no debate’ can be had against your argument because they are steeped in pseudoscience, unproven, and can never stand up to robust review.

It is obvious once it is seen. At least some other recent posters have provided us with studies that we could disseminate. Sadly, those studies never quite supported the point they were posted to uphold. And those reading along could see it plainly enough.

So, many of your posts have the same effect. Readers can judge for themselves just how solid the basis is for the arguments you put forward. Hints at authority, or telling people to do their own research, means readers will either do just - go and find out more for themselves.

When people do ‘educate’ themselves, the arguments you put forward are not convincing, and readers see this. So, I thank you for your posts because each one is illuminating.

Deliriumoftheendless · 30/03/2021 08:07

Like Jane Horrock’s character in Life Is Sweet quacking “fascist” and “Tory” at everyone.

Deliriumoftheendless · 30/03/2021 08:08

That was to aliasundercover

Quadzilla · 30/03/2021 08:09

I love how they use terf island as an insult. We’re the island that had the suffragettes FFS!! Of course we’re terf island. Women have a long tradition of standing up to misogynist bullshit and bullies on this island. I see terf island as a badge of honour to be honest.

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