I had the most awful row with my teenagers yesterday

[JensonsAcolyte]

Both totally TWAW adherents.

DS is 18, his girlfriend is Non Binary and goes by a made up name (male Greek god). I am polite and go along with pronouns and use their chosen name.

For some reason Eddie Izzard came up at dinner time and I ‘misgendered’ them. DS really started laying into me about my bigotry so I played him the clip of Eddie saying Eddie has boy mode and girl mode and uses both sets of pronouns (I've tied myself in knots there as I don’t want to be deleted).

It came out in the conversation that DS believes, absolutely and 100%, that Izzard has changed sex. Actually changed sex. And that if DH came down for breakfast this morning and announced he was now a woman then DS would absolutely 100% believe that he had changed sex overnight.

DD was chiming in at this point and said that actually she would like to go by she/they as sometimes she identifies as ‘less female’. I was a bit irate by this point and I’m afraid I said that is navel gazing bollocks (oops).

Anyway it all got a bit shouty, and then DS dropped in that ‘some lesbians have genital preferences, and ultimately that’s transphobic but nobody’s trying to force anyone to have sex with anyone’ and I lost my shit a bit. I’d hoped this nonsense was confined to Twitter tbh and I hadn’t really seen it in the wild.

I told him he was a privileged, woke little shit. That lesbians my age have spent their entire lives having to justify their sexuality, being told they just haven’t met the right man, not to mention the sexual assaults and corrective rapes. And now are being told they are BIGOTS for not including penis. I was really angry. He then turned round and said the reason his girlfriend (and yes he calls them his girlfriend which is a whole nother eye roll) doesn’t like coming here is because I’m well known for being a Terf and she feels unsafe.

I’ve basically left it as saying I don’t adhere to your religion but that doesn’t make me hateful or phobic, we had a bit more of an argument where he tried to say it’s not a religion but actually I think I made that point quite clear. I don’t believe in God but that doesn’t mean I hate Christians, I don’t believe people can change sex but that doesn’t make me Transphobic.

I’ve woken up this morning and I just still feel sick about it all. He called me some dreadful things, bigot, hateful, dangerous. I said some things I regret, particularly about the arrant nonsense that is non binary, I’m usually a lot more measured than that to avoid offence but I was just so angry.

Is anyone else having this with their teens? I could do with a bit of solidarity, advice maybe or just a hand hold.

All the kids love this stuff at the moment. I would avoid the subject. Most of them will grow up and grow out of it.
one of my dc identifies as non binary, and I mostly now go along with it, although they do know my views on it. We have an agree to disagree arrangement and I concentrate on that its ok to have different beliefs. I am kind of expecting a proper falling out at some point though if it continues.

I just think that young people are desperatly trying to find their place in the world and to have an identity and a group. Its kind of the new punk.
Im just grateful theyre not a tory

@Wearywithteens

Oh ffs 🙄

Because of the topic of it, there are really strict rules Weary.

Three deletions in these topics get you a ban.

Absolutely awful situation. We older parents have to be all accepting and open but some kids and young adults are very intolerant of older people not accepting the changes or not fast enough.
I'm just glad our 15 year old hasn't jumped to the woke wagon.

I view the avoiding of certain topics of discussion, in order to maintain peace, as failing to do my job properly. Teenagers and young adults need to be taught how to think and reason and accept that not everyone will agree with them. It does them no favours to not be challenged or to think that only the opinions of their peers matter.
Sometimes they need a metaphorical kick up the arse to remind them that respect for their parents and the safe, stable home provided, is important, that their parents are people too, with valid life experiences that have informed our opinions.

Oh my god, you've just made me dread when my dd gets to teen age. The world's gone mad.

Wow that sounds like a daily row in our house between my dh and dd16. Literally most days about something like that.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

I view the avoiding of certain topics of discussion, in order to maintain peace, as failing to do my job properly. Teenagers and young adults need to be taught how to think and reason and accept that not everyone will agree with them. It does them no favours to not be challenged or to think that only the opinions of their peers matter. Sometimes they need a metaphorical kick up the arse to remind them that respect for their parents and the safe, stable home provided, is important, that their parents are people too, with valid life experiences that have informed our opinions.

I agree with this. Also someone talked about the best thing to do sometimes is to zip it, but there really are situations where you aren't doing your duty if you do. You shouldn't have to tread on eggshells around young people about their views. I idly wonder if had parents who do rather too much zipping it.

I should also clarify that when I refer to feeling disgust for kids who claim other people's opinions make them unsafe, I'm talking about older kids, like the ones in that video. (Anyone under about 25 is a kid to me, but I think by about the age of 18 you should have learned the difference between disagreement and danger.)

The fact he picked more on you and not his Dad speaks volumes to me.

Having spoken to some teens, this is through a voluntary organisation a few said that it was all the boring and dull kids who did this as attention seeking. Their words not mine. I was very surprised. I do live in a place very much the opposite of Brighton in a very industrial bit of the Midlands. Less time for navel gazing I guess.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

I view the avoiding of certain topics of discussion, in order to maintain peace, as failing to do my job properly. Teenagers and young adults need to be taught how to think and reason and accept that not everyone will agree with them. It does them no favours to not be challenged or to think that only the opinions of their peers matter. Sometimes they need a metaphorical kick up the arse to remind them that respect for their parents and the safe, stable home provided, is important, that their parents are people too, with valid life experiences that have informed our opinions.

Agreed.

But it's all about HOW you go about doing this.

Adding Coddling... to my wish list too, thanks Just

It explores and reveals the social and cultural forces that have led to this state of fragility; where disagreement is 'literal violation', etc.

Hi!

I have seen it happen a few times that a parent has to choose between ideological dominance of the home and contact with their child. The fact is your son sees the world in a different way to you, and you don't have enough sway over him to make him agree with you by diktat. I think you have two options:

• Don't discuss these topics anymore, accept that he's going to disagree
• Discuss these topics in a more sensitive way, without raising your voice at your child. Come at it from a place of sincere care and curiosity, and try to find what you agree on. A key sign that you're not being curious is if you're dismissing what he says as nonsense or dogma!

In any case I think it would be wise to reach out and sincerely apologise for being rude to your son's partner. Sorry to say you really didn't cover yourself in glory there.

I really hope the situation improves for all of you! Remember that your relationship with your son is more important to you than whatever differences you have.

I’ve never been rude to his girlfriend.

@JensonsAcolyte

I was talking about it with DH this morning again.

It’s a weird religious fervour that nobody really believes. But everybody is too scared of backlash to disagree. It is exactly like enforced religion. We are heretics for openly challenging it, but almost no one actually believes it’s true. Like most Christians don’t actually literally believe the wafers and wine are the body and blood of Christ.

No one actually believes human beings can change sex but we’re not allowed to say it out loud.

Be careful with that last bit.

This has clearly shaken you up OP

Your son's reaction and different treatment of you and your DH is quite worrying. Why does he feel he can 'go' at your like that but not your DH, is he asserting his male authority? What is he like normally?

As regards the girlfriend not feeling safe, I would be insulted by this and I would be letting them know. Perhaps she should not come to the house if you forgetting to use the compelled speach she expects affects her so much.

Rooty is right unfortunately there are some people who believe you can change your gas bill, driving licence, 'live like a woman' (whatever that means - presumably cooking cleaning, wearing makeup etc) for a couple of years and you magically change your sex! Luckily there are lots of us who know understand biology and the importance of sex and single sex spaces.

The fucking nerve of a person announcing they don't feel safe in your home! I'd be forbidding them ever returning, frankly. I'd tell your son that you have done a thorough risk assessment and you cannot guarantee this girlfriend won't hear biological facts in your home and therefore you won't risk her safety by letting them in. Ever.

Hmm. I think this degree of retaliation towards a girl of 18 is unwarranted.

She's silly. She's 18.

She's wrong. And rude. And deluded. Of course she is. But don't come down on her like a tonne of bricks as if she were 35.

People who claim that hearing the truth spoken is 'unsafe' should not be welcomed into the OPs home. It's too big of a statement to leave, in my opinion.

In fact, why is this girlfriend's boyfriend taking her to 'unsafe' places!?

Sympathies. It's so hard wanting a good relationship with your kids, wanting to be able to discuss these things, and fearing that they will get so sucked into all this that they won't want to know you once they've left home.
I'm sure the last thing OP wants is to drive her son away by not accepting his partner, even though they have been extraordinarily rude.
This topic is way different to most parent/teen conflicts. I think most normal parents lose their shit at least once or twice when their kids are teenage too. You'd have to be superhuman not to. It's worth youngsters knowing that humans, even parents, aren't infallible in the way they deal with things.
So tough. This is not just disagreement around politics, or pulling weight around the house, or wearing clothes deemed inappropriate by parents.
Like it or not, the outcome of this affects us all, and we women do have skin in the game.
It's so sad that any kind of debate is discouraged. This is a world we all have to live in and the current ageism and mysogyny is deeply troubling.
I was hoping the current focus on women's safety would get more people thinking about all this, but they seems to be running parallel courses.

@Bumpsadaisie

Hmm. I think this degree of retaliation towards a girl of 18 is unwarranted.

She's silly. She's 18.

She's wrong. And rude. And deluded. Of course she is. But don't come down on her like a tonne of bricks as if she were 35.

What degree of retaliation? The OP hasn't actually done anything. Yet.

What do you think parents should do when they are seriously insulted by the friends of their children?

I'm just thinking back to when I was a teenager. I would not have expected to be allowed in someone's house if I had accused them of being dangerous. It wouldn't have occurred to anyone that that was a normal, acceptable thing to say about someone and then continue to expect hospitality to be extended to them.

I remember once one of my friends got banned from another friend's house because she was rude about her mum. Wasn't allowed back till she apologised. I thought she was a bit of a battle-axe at the time, but I can see now how right she was to state her boundaries.

@Sugarygoodness

The fucking nerve of a person announcing they don't feel safe in your home! I'd be forbidding them ever returning, frankly. I'd tell your son that you have done a thorough risk assessment and you cannot guarantee this girlfriend won't hear biological facts in your home and therefore you won't risk her safety by letting them in. Ever.

She is someone's child.

If someone treat my child like that I'd go off my head

18 is old enough to vote

Those that value being right and winning the argument over maintaining a relationship with their children can’t then be surprised when tat relationship is damaged in the future

This thread makes the stately homes one make a lot of sense

Having said that, partner is a bit different to friend. So I'm not sure what the protocol is there, I just feel it shouldn't be allowed to pass unremarked, it's too disrespectful.