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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jolene, and other anti-feminist anthems

817 replies

StealthPolarBear · 20/03/2021 20:14

Just to say this is a light-hearted chat thread.
I love jolene, sing it with a minor adaptation every time I'm cleaning the windows. I have no idea about the background, but it must come near the top of the least feminist songs ever!
Another which I've just heard is sheryl crow, strong enough. "lie to me, I promise I'll believe, lie to me, but please don't leave"
Brilliant song, awful lyrics :)
Any others?

OP posts:
Ninkanink · 21/03/2021 12:01

As I recall she said why should she hate on her as she made millions in royalties! 😉

I’ve always loved her little quip when singing ‘We’ve got Tonight’ with Kenny Rogers... ‘who needs Sheena Easton!’ 😆😆

Scout2016 · 21/03/2021 12:01

I find that Bruce song sexy. Also I love this one, Sad Eyes, which is a bit stalkery. Trisha Yearwood did a good cover of it too.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 21/03/2021 12:03

The one many people disagree with, Paoli Nuttini's Candy is a classic stalker, I'll use your body nasty as they come

www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/paolonutini/candy.html

Just give me some candy and then I'll go!!!

SmokedDuck · 21/03/2021 12:04

@Bluntness100

I always thought it was a pretty responsible song!

Depends if you find an adult saying a child is hot and teasing them and they will flirt with them ok.?

For me it’s a no.

Isn't that just an observation? Fifteen or sixteen year olds who have snuck into bars are not typically going out of their way not to flirt etc.

Maybe this stuff is more tightly controlled now, liquor laws are more strict so it's less common to meet underaged people in clubs. But I don't see any particular moral benefit to claiming girls in their mid teens don't flirt with men they are attracted to? Or are we supposed to think they aren't attracted to men at that age?(This will be a surprise to my mid teen daughter, while likely too shy to flirt she's recently developed a major crush on Idris Elba.)

I really think pretending that this is not something that happens is way more dangerous than acknowledging that it does, and the appropriate thing for the man in question is to not do anything about it.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 21/03/2021 12:06

As I recall she said why should she hate on her as she made millions in royalties

She said something like the royalties on that song (courtesy of WH and Bodyguard ) meant she could have bought Graceland if she'd wanted - DP is fabulous.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 21/03/2021 12:10

Isn't Beyonce's it the relationship? And she always points to her finger when she sings "it"

Beautiful South lyrics are always sarcastic, the more you think he is lauding something the sneakier the sting in the lyrics. "Don't marry her, fuck me!" etc

Scout2016 · 21/03/2021 12:11

Bruce Springsteen's Reno makes me feel ill though. What was he thinking?

MissBarbary · 21/03/2021 12:16

China Girl is about politics, not girls from China

That's some stretch.

Paul Trynka, the author of the David Bowie biography,Starman, explains the song was inspired by Iggy Pop's infatuation with Kuelan Nguyen, aVietnamesewoman, as a metaphor for hisStoogescareer

Nile Rodgers, the producer of David Bowie's 1983 version of the song, offered his own interpretation of the lyrics: "I figured China Girl was about doing drugs ... because China isChina Whitewhich is heroin, girl is cocaine. I thought it was a song aboutspeedballing. I thought, in the drug community in New York, coke is girl, and heroin is boy. So then I proceeded to do this arrangement which was ultra pop. Because I thought that, being David Bowie, he would appreciate the irony of doing something so pop about something so taboo. And what was really cool was that he said 'I love that!'."

Bowie himself claims it's an attack on racism. (Yeah right)

Gwenhwyfar · 21/03/2021 12:17

"ultimately resolving to be proactive about a potential threat to her marriage"

Jolene is not the threat though is she? What's she going to do? Warn off every good looking woman in town?! Women are not responsible for men's behaviour.

MissBarbary · 21/03/2021 12:21

@hoodathunkit

THE leader of a Scottish rock band which sings about hitting women and rages about "Femi-nazis" is in charge of a charity that helps the victims of childhood abuse.

Bruce Hotchkies, frontman of Thunderf**k and the Deadly Romantics, has taken over as chairman of Falkirk-based Open Secret, a member of the Scottish Parliament's cross-party group on Men's Violence Against Women and Children.

The 45-year-old's appointment at the troubled charity, which is facing an independent review by the local council, comes despite his most recent video featuring a rant against feminists and the lyric: "You keep up this s**t, you're going to get hit.”

If you are a feminist, fine/but your s*t's out of line," he sings. "This one is for you. You're a Femi-nazi/a f*ing patsy. If you keep up this s*t/you're going to get hit." There is then a reference to a sexual act.

Another song, F*ked By Rock And Roll, features the lyric "Your dad ain't gonna save you from a guy like me." There then follows another reference to a sexual act. A third track, Starf*ker, is sung from the point of view of a rock star expressing contempt for a "piece of meat" groupie he is having sex with. The songs are from the band's album, Sexploitation.

Canadian-born Hotchkies was previously a drummer in a group called Britney's Krack, which styled itself as the most hated band in his home town of Hamilton, Ontario. The nearest thing it had to a hit was a video featuring a prostitute being slapped in a New York underpass to a cover of Ricky Martin's La Vida Loca.

Hotchkies said his video, This Is For You - which railed against "Femi-nazis" - was not sexist but a "F**k you to the mainstream". He said it was for all those who were the victims of cyberbullies for the way they looked or acted. He insisted Femi-nazis - a term that has been used in the 1990s as a slur on feminists - actually referred to men.

He said: "The whole video is about free women killing me. The Femi-nazis are the guys always bashing other people.”

Janine Rennie, chief executive of Open Secret, said she had never heard Hotchkies' music. "What Mr Hotchkies does in his private life is none of our business. However, I understand his work is ironic, tongue-in-cheek and he is trying to challenge some of the 1970s rock culture. The music is not connected to his work. He was brought in because of his business expertise.”

Interested readers can read more via this link

www.heraldscotland.com/news/13174177.row-over-abuse-charity-chiefs-violent-femi-nazi-song-lyrics/

The charity concerned Open Secret, now called Wellbeing Scotland, is a fascinating organisation in a Poundland version of Kids Company kind of way

Is there any level of idiocy left for the Scottish Government to aim for?
SmokedDuck · 21/03/2021 12:25

@MissBarbary

China Girl is about politics, not girls from China

That's some stretch.

Paul Trynka, the author of the David Bowie biography,Starman, explains the song was inspired by Iggy Pop's infatuation with Kuelan Nguyen, aVietnamesewoman, as a metaphor for hisStoogescareer

Nile Rodgers, the producer of David Bowie's 1983 version of the song, offered his own interpretation of the lyrics: "I figured China Girl was about doing drugs ... because China isChina Whitewhich is heroin, girl is cocaine. I thought it was a song aboutspeedballing. I thought, in the drug community in New York, coke is girl, and heroin is boy. So then I proceeded to do this arrangement which was ultra pop. Because I thought that, being David Bowie, he would appreciate the irony of doing something so pop about something so taboo. And what was really cool was that he said 'I love that!'."

Bowie himself claims it's an attack on racism. (Yeah right)

I always understood it to be about the opening up of China to Europeans. A similar kind of personification as you see in "American Woman" which is obviously not actually about a woman.

But in any case I think the basic point is that reading these kinds of songs completely literally is not always appropriate. Nor is seeing them as being somehow approving of the situation described. Someone above mentioned the lyrics of Hey Joe not having aged well - guess what, you were never supposed to think Joe was an ok guy.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 21/03/2021 12:25

China Girl? That's an Iggy Pop lyric, written with David Bowie. It's a mixed metaphor - a real woman that Iggy Pop was infatuated with but couldn't have a meaningful relationship with, just as happened with the Stooges and then drugs, cocaine, speedballing. Basically Pop working out that he loved best the things that were destroying him.

StealthPolarBear · 21/03/2021 12:25

Complete ly agree about wild world. Even as a child I picked up that this was a man telling a woman if she left him shed never manage, and I wasn't particularly sharp.
Hey Joe is an interesting one. I don't think we were ever meant to be on Joe's side surely. We were meant to be shocked by what he'd done and the justification surely.

OP posts:
sleveen · 21/03/2021 12:38

Wild world is a father talking to his daughter surely? I've sung it to my daughter!

kwiksavenofrillsusername · 21/03/2021 12:39

@Deliriumoftheendless

Dolly Parton is a better woman than me (obviously) because the Whitney Houston version makes me want to smash things. I really hate it.
The Bodyguard musical has an even worse version of the song if that’s possible. It starts with what feels like 20 mins of warbling iiiifff iiii shoooooould....... staaaaaaaaaay... it’s like they’re going for worlds longest song award.

Barbour Girl has made me laugh this morning. Someone please write it as an anthem for people moving from London to the countryside and complaining about everything.

sleveen · 21/03/2021 12:40

Ok, it's written about himself.

justilou1 · 21/03/2021 12:42

Blondie - “One Way or Another”
One way, or another, I'm gonna find ya
I'm gonna get ya get ya get ya get ya
One way, or another, I'm gonna win ya
I'm gonna get ya get ya get ya get ya
One way, or another, I'm gonna see ya
I'm gonna meet ya meet ya meet ya meet ya
One day, maybe next week
I'm gonna meet ya, I'm gonna meet ya, I'll meet ya
I will drive past your house
And if the lights are all down
I'll see who's around
One way, or another, I'm gonna find ya
I'm gonna get ya get ya get ya get ya!
One way, or another, I'm gonna win ya
I'll get ya! I'll get ya!
One way, or another, I'm gonna see ya
I'm gonna meet ya meet ya meet ya meet ya!
One day, maybe next week, I'm gonna meet ya
I'll meet ya! Ahhh...
And if the lights are all out
I'll follow your bus downtown
See who's hangin' 'round!

PuppyMonkey · 21/03/2021 12:43

@sleveen - Cat Stevens wrote it about his other half at the time apparently. I used to think it was about a dad too, but afraid not.Confused

MissBarbary · 21/03/2021 12:43

@StealthPolarBear

Complete ly agree about wild world. Even as a child I picked up that this was a man telling a woman if she left him shed never manage, and I wasn't particularly sharp. Hey Joe is an interesting one. I don't think we were ever meant to be on Joe's side surely. We were meant to be shocked by what he'd done and the justification surely.
Hendrix didn't write Hey Joe and it's been covered by many others, including Patti Smith. Tim O'Brien's breakneck speed bluesgrass version is a wonder.

It's telling a story- we're not expected to emphathise with the character

Clearly in Gillian Welch's Caleb Meyer we are being asked to empathise with Nellie Kane.

groovergirl · 21/03/2021 12:45

@TheBeardedVulture

There’s a metal version of Jolene where they’ve changed the lyrics and Jolene is now some terrifying and unknownable entity that needs to be appeased before she destroys everything.
Grin Grin Grin This I have to hear!
FlippinFumin · 21/03/2021 12:46

I am old, and like songs I should not. I love Dr Hook, they remind me of an old love from my teens. Sharing the Night Together, I mean today he is a sex pest. Sylvia's Mother, leave Sylvia the fuck alone, you broke her heart, let her get on with her life. You only want her now because she has found someone else. And of course A Little Bit More. So mea culpa.

MissBarbary · 21/03/2021 12:48

But in any case I think the basic point is that reading these kinds of songs completely literally is not always appropriate

Neither is imposing alternative, grandiose and incredible interpretations. In the case of Pop and Bowie I think it's fairly safe to take the lyrics of a song about a "little China girl" literally.

chestnutmares · 21/03/2021 12:50

Look up Jolene at 33rpm online, it sounds amazing! Love DP too.

DaveGrohlsTeeth · 21/03/2021 12:51

Still love Jolene, regardless.

I love Cream and love to sing along to it (and I imagine it's tongue in cheek) and it is a classic, but Outside Woman Blues is so not a feminist song.

I'm gonna buy me a bulldog
Watch my lady whilst I sleep
I'm gonna buy me a bulldog
Watch my lady whilst I sleep
'Cause women these days
They're so doggone crooked
That they might make off 'fore day creep

Well, you can't watch your wife
And your outside woman too
You know you can't watch your wife
And your outside women's too
'Cause when you're out with your woman
Your wife will be at home
Cooking your food, doing your dirt
Buddy, what're you trying to do?

Ninkanink · 21/03/2021 12:54

Barbour Girl has made me laugh this morning. Someone please write it as an anthem for people moving from London to the countryside and complaining about everything.

That’s exactly what I thought of too!! 😆