Jolene, and other anti-feminist anthems

[StealthPolarBear]

Just to say this is a light-hearted chat thread.
I love jolene, sing it with a minor adaptation every time I'm cleaning the windows. I have no idea about the background, but it must come near the top of the least feminist songs ever!
Another which I've just heard is sheryl crow, strong enough. "lie to me, I promise I'll believe, lie to me, but please don't leave"
Brilliant song, awful lyrics :)
Any others?

A couple from my vault of guilty secrets:

Billy Ocean: "Get Out of My Dreams, Get Into My Car." In the '80s people thought this song was sexy, but actually it is about street harassment, carjacking and attempted kidnapping.

Tom Jones: "She's A Lady." My friends and I love to boogie to this and we scream with laughter at the outrageous lyrics. "'I can leave her on her own, knowing she's OK alone and there's no messing" is a backhanded compliment if ever I heard one!

How about:

If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So from my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you

Don't let your friends say you have no taste
Go ahead and marry her anyway
Though her face is ugly, her eyes don't match
Take it from me she's the better catch

Charming! But such a good tune

Oh yes "She's ugly! But she sure can cook!"

@MissBarbary

But in any case I think the basic point is that reading these kinds of songs completely literally is not always appropriate

Neither is imposing alternative, grandiose and incredible interpretations. In the case of Pop and Bowie I think it's fairly safe to take the lyrics of a song about a "little China girl" literally.

Why would you think that's grandiose? There are lots of political pop songs, including written by people who also just write songs about girls. There are religious pop songs written as if they are about a romantic partner.

The lyrics of the song are kind of odd in relation to a girl. OTOH, in any song about a particular relationship it's probably not correct to expand the meaning to include all Chinese women, either.

Apologies if repeated but only at page 4 of 27!

Boys to men - end of the road. It's one giant sack of emotional blackmail.

Fun - We are young.

*My seat's been taken by some sunglasses
Asking 'bout a scar
I know I gave it to you months ago
I know you're trying to forget
But between the drinks and subtle things
And the holes in my apologies
You know I'm trying hard to take it back"

Girl, you'll be a woman soon.
(Can't remember the artist it was on pulp fiction soundtrack)

MN8 (mid 90's boy band)
I've got a little something for ya. I Bloody loved this one in my youth.

I'm happy to let Jolene go because it's Dolly and she's just awesome as a human being.

The one that I find deeply deeply offensive is Blurred Lines by Robin Thicke. Rapey much?

@napody

PS when I say an immaturity, I mean it’s the lyrics they wrote when young that had that tone. I think Paul McCartney grew out of it, and George never felt that way in the first place. Please don’t find examples to prove me wrong

I have blinkers on where St George Harrison is concerned. He can do no wrong.

Fairy tale of New York by Pogues lead singer an the late Kirsty McCall

Its a quirky strange song which is often played at Christmas time bizarrely. !

But its a weird refreshing song as its so different to the sickly sweet Christmas songs about at that time !

justilou1 I’m a huge Blondie fan, and I also listed one of her covers upthread but it was a toss up between your choice (One Way or Another) and the one I chose (I'm Gonna Love You Too), but then I also considered ‘Hanging on the Telephone’ and started looking at my vinyl collection and decided to stop thinking because I luffs Blondie and it’s taken months to (re)find her in vinyl. So I’m lalalala la’ing at this stage

Girl, you'll be a woman soon.
(Can't remember the artist it was on pulp fiction soundtrack)

For this how-to guide to sexual grooming, Neil Diamond deserves to be busted for incitement. ''Soon you'll need a man" indeed! Shame on Urge Overkill for reviving it.

Tally ho, Barbara!
Hi, Ken!
You want to go for a ride?
Sure, Ken!
Jump on!

I'm a Barbour girl in a Barbour world
No one-use plastic, it's fantastic
You can brush my mare, do dressage anywhere
Imagination, second home decoration

come on Barby, vote Tory party!

@DIshedUp

Black Heart by Stooshe is one of the worst: 'Daddy I've fallen for a monster Somehow he's scaring me to death He's big and bad I love him like mad Momma, he's the best I ever had Daddy I've fallen for a monster He got a black heart'

I agree with this .

A lot of the songs that people have posted were of their time .
Gary Pucket and the union gap - that's 50 years old now. Mostly we all know it's creepy now .

But this Stooshe song is recent (around 2015?). This song got a lot of mainstream radio play and the singer is romanticising domestic
violence . I think the fact that it's a female singer makes it worse . It's frightening that a female group is singing a song like this in this day and age .

@DaveGrohlsTeeth

Still love Jolene, regardless.

I love Cream and love to sing along to it (and I imagine it's tongue in cheek) and it is a classic, but Outside Woman Blues is so not a feminist song.

I'm gonna buy me a bulldog
Watch my lady whilst I sleep
I'm gonna buy me a bulldog
Watch my lady whilst I sleep
'Cause women these days
They're so doggone crooked
That they might make off 'fore day creep

Well, you can't watch your wife
And your outside woman too
You know you can't watch your wife
And your outside women's too
'Cause when you're out with your woman
Your wife will be at home
Cooking your food, doing your dirt
Buddy, what're you trying to do?

Outside Woman Blues was first recorded by Blind Joe Reynolds before WWII.

The last verse quoted above, and

Tell you married men, how to keep young wives at home
Tell you married men, how to keep young wives at home
Get you a job, roll for the man, and try to carry your labor home.

Tell you married women, how to keep your husbands at home
Tell you married women, how to keep your husbands at home, hmm hmm
You oughta take care of that man's labor, and let these single boys alone.

sound quite reasonable.

Nah, Dolly is one of my feminist icons. Can't fault her.

The Stooshe song doesn't romanticise DV. Loads of women have found themselves madly in love with abusive men- the singer doesn't sound happy with her situation or claim that his 'black heart' is a good quality. It's a sad song but relatable.

I don't see the problem with 'Drove all Night', either although it always crops up on these threads. He doesn't mention anything about unconsensual sex!

Duran Duran:
Girls on Film - the video
Hungry like the Wolf - predatory

I also hate ‘I don’t need clever conversation, I love you just the at you are’

Not to be one of those people, especially because this is a light hearted thread, but Jolene is about alcohol and fix you was about someone dying. (sorry if that's already been covered🤣)
I feel like the majority of catchy songs have some of the worst lyrics/meanings that you don't catch unless you fully pay attention to the lyrics but by then the songs already found a place in your head and then you're stuck in a permanent love hate battle with it.

@ErrolTheDragon

Tally ho, Barbara! Hi, Ken! You want to go for a ride? Sure, Ken! Jump on!

I'm a Barbour girl in a Barbour world
No one-use plastic, it's fantastic
You can brush my mare, do dressage anywhere
Imagination, second home decoration

come on Barby, vote Tory party!

👏👏👏

Jolene is about alcohol

Not according to Dolly! The name came from a little girl who asked for an autograph, and the story came from a bank teller who had a crush on Dolly’s husband.

Jolene isn’t about alcohol...

Fix you is about Gwyneth Paltrow’s dad dying though.

Jolene is heartbreaking, but I can't see it as anti-feminist? A woman begging another woman not to toy with her life?

I suppose it could be mysandrist - since it's assumed the man will be powerless against Jolene's charms? But TBH I see that as more realistic, given the story of a woman, presumably married to a man in a small town, possibly as a best choice rather than a totally free choice for both of them, and an exciting, beautiful woman who's arrived looking for some fun, without thinking about the devastation she'd leave behind. A determined woman could easily turn a man's head in that situation I think. (or vice versa)

@Ninkanink

I’m not engaging with you any further on this.

You have your view which you’re entitled to, but I’m not going to dignify that comment with any further interaction.

You don't need announce that you're not engaging

"A woman begging another woman not to toy with her life?"

It's a woman begging another woman not to take her man away i.e. women tempt men, they don't do anything.

"I suppose it could be mysandrist - since it's assumed the man will be powerless against Jolene's charms?"

No, the trope that men are powerless against women's charms is old fashioned sexism, not misandrist at all. It's the idea that men's sexuality is so strong that they could never say no, so it's up to women to police men's behaviour.

"an exciting, beautiful woman who's arrived looking for some fun, without thinking about the devastation she'd leave behind"

It wouldn't be the single woman's fault if the married man wanted to have an affair FFS!

"A determined woman could easily turn a man's head in that situation I think. (or vice versa)"

Yes, but once DP has persuaded Jolene to leave her man alone, she'll have to go through every woman in town, constantly worrying. Better to have a faithful husband don't you think?

Better to have a faithful husband don't you think?

you ever found one of those?

Yes, but once DP has persuaded Jolene to leave her man alone, she'll have to go through every woman in town, constantly worrying. Better to have a faithful husband don't you think?

She wasn't worrying before, it's a small town, she knows everyone.

And yes, a faithful husband would be better, but the reality of small town (or village - I grew up in a village) life is that you don't have the same choices as people in other places.

It's a woman begging another woman not to take her man away i.e. women tempt men, they don't do anything.
No, the trope that men are powerless against women's charms is old fashioned sexism

Again though, if you've grown up in a small town, married the person you were expected to, if your livelihood is dependant on that man, as it would be, but you know it's not a marriage based on anything but basically convenience/availability at the time, isn't it fair enough to worry that someone who's specifically targetting him might be successful? Is that really the sexist trope of any man follows his penis? Isn't it more like being poached from a job?

I look at the song from the small town poverty perspective that I would think DP comes from. Not from a middle class, free choices for everyone viewpoint that I might personally have the luxury of having

Yes, but once DP has persuaded Jolene to leave her man alone, she'll have to go through every woman in town, constantly worrying. Better to have a faithful husband don't you think?

I don't really understand why you're treating the song as if it's intended as a kind of moral lecturer to women on how they should behave if they're worried their husband might cheat, and not simply an expression of a particular set of circumstances from Dolly Parton's life experience that she thought might connect with listeners.