Consent for women

[ArabellaScott]

A reminder:

You don't owe anyone your attention.

You have no obligation to 'include' anyone in your 'dating pool'.

Your sexual preferences are yours and yours alone.

Nobody has the right to shame you for your sexual preferences.

Nobody has the right to question your sexual preferences.

When it comes to sex and sexual preferences, nobody has the right to demand your attention, your consideration or your attraction.

Not ever.

Lesbian = Female Human attracted to Female humans.*

Gay (males) = Male Human attracted to Male humans.*

Bi-Sexual. = Female or male attracted to female and male to varying degrees.

Straight = Opposite sex attracted.

*There are personal preferences, but Lesbians and Gay men can generally fall under the "Gay" banner. They are lesbians who prefer only "Lesbian". They are always ONLY homosexual.

(Many lesbian and gay men may have been forced into hetrosexual practices on pain of being murdered/ostracized; they are still homosexual)

It doesn't matter what a person looks like, Sex matters. So people can enjoyably have sex.

I raised my point more as an addition to the original point, largely because as a bi woman I personally do think there are prejudices that inform people’s preferences not to date me

I'm "prejudiced" against dating you because you are a woman. I'm not attracted to women. I don't see any need for me or anyone else to question that or to examine why.

It's baffling that this is even a thing and needs to be said

What on earth has infected young peoples minds that they believe societal coercion to ignore sexual preferences is acceptable?

It's so regressive and flies in the face of years of hard won battles around consent and body autonomy

Even if not actually illegal I think an older woman making a play for a teenager is extremely questionable as is any woman who pays for sex.

There's something to be questioned in anyone whose 'preference' is for a real power imbalance.

@Bordois

as a bi woman I personally do think there are prejudices that inform people’s preferences not to date me

What do you think those prejudices are and how do the differ from any other prejudices people may have when it comes to dating preferences?

It differs because a preference such as ‘I won’t date someone who doesn’t like star trek’ doesn’t make any negative assumptions about the person. Ask someone why they wouldn’t, and it’s likely to be ‘because I love Star Trek and want to share my passion with someone’.

Compared to, why won’t you date someone who’s bi? Some of the answers on threads with that very question have been:
They’re more likely to cheat
I’d never satisfy their sexual appetite
It’s emasculating/gross that a man’s been near another man’s dick (for bi men)
They’re too kinky
It’s gross they’ve been with a man (for bi women - tbh, men are pretty gross so yeah I wish I haven’t bothered with them tbh)
I’d be paranoid they’re looking at other people of both sexes
It’s a turn off
They might have an STI
They’ve probably been promiscuous

See how all the above are negative traits imposed on the person for being bi? Apart from the ones specifically relating to bi men and women, the others are things that could apply to anyone - a straight partner could be cheating or have an STI and keeping that information from you, but you wouldn’t make an assumption about it because they’re straight.

It is worth asking yourself why you think such things about bi people. Doesn’t mean you have to start dating them or sleeping with them, but an awareness of the origin of your assumptions is good.

@MissBarbary

I raised my point more as an addition to the original point, largely because as a bi woman I personally do think there are prejudices that inform people’s preferences not to date me

I'm "prejudiced" against dating you because you are a woman. I'm not attracted to women. I don't see any need for me or anyone else to question that or to examine why.

You’re totally missing my point. I’m not questioning why a straight woman wouldn’t want to date me. That’s fine. See my post above.

If a lesbian woman doesn't want to have sex with a bi-sexual women then that is the end of the conversation. End. Of.

We know the reasons already. No need to try and push boundaries. We get enough of that shit from men.

@PurpleHoodie

If a lesbian woman doesn't want to have sex with a bi-sexual women then that is the end of the conversation. End. Of.

We know the reasons already. No need to try and push boundaries. We get enough of that shit from men.

I disagree that it’s ‘end of conversation’, unless you mean in an absolutely literal sense that they’re about to have sex, and one of the woman says actually no I don’t want to. In that scenario, yes, fine.

But in a general sense - I think it is worth discussing the aversion to bi women in the sense that they’re seen as having been ‘defiled’ by a man and made less worthy, because there is A LOT of social context around that.

Having said that, that particular preference is one I have a lot of sympathy with because of the societal power structures in which men sit, and I can understand why on a visceral, moral and political level, a lesbian wouldn’t want to increase her proximity to men.

I think it’s different though when it’s flipped to women who don’t want to date bi men, much of that is rooted in homophobia and ‘real man’ stereotypes.

But I’ll say it louder for people at the back: theoretical analysis of ones preferences doesn’t mean you have to have sex with anyone you don’t want to!

Ted

No.

The conversation has already been had amongst women.

It is passed down to/and between women. Explanations and all.

There is no more to be said. There is no debating. It is knowledge passed on between women.

No means no.

You’re totally missing my point. I’m not questioning why a straight woman wouldn’t want to date me. That’s fine. See my post above

You are missing the point. You have listed a whole host of what you consider spurious reasons for not considering bi- women. I don't need to justify my refusal to find an acceptable reason.

Well said MissBarbary and PurpleHoodie!

Right so you don’t think anything is worth thinking about beyond ‘I think and feel this therefore it is set in stone’? You don’t think preferences and choices are influenced by society around us? You don’t have any interest in developing a deeper understanding of yourself and your position in the world? Shame, because it’s actually fascinating how political the personal is and how these things intertwine. One of my dating preferences excludes narrow minded people with no curiosity so our paths would be unlikely to cross anyway.

I'm not much into soul searching if I don't fancy someone either.

• But in a general sense - I think it is worth discussing the aversion to bi women in the sense that they’re seen as having been ‘defiled’ by a man and made less worthy, because there is A LOT of social context around that.

It sounds like the topic for a separate thread, rather than trying to make it the subject of this one tbh.

@MissBarbary

You’re totally missing my point. I’m not questioning why a straight woman wouldn’t want to date me. That’s fine. See my post above

You are missing the point. You have listed a whole host of what you consider spurious reasons for not considering bi- women. I don't need to justify my refusal to find an acceptable reason.

So it’s fine to make assumptions that bi women are more promiscuous, prone to STIs and unable to be faithful is it? Or it’s fine for men to only want to date them because they fetishise them? I don’t think prejudices are “spurious” personally. I think they’re harmful to the women on the receiving end.

@ErrolTheDragon

* But in a general sense - I think it is worth discussing the aversion to bi women in the sense that they’re seen as having been ‘defiled’ by a man and made less worthy, because there is A LOT of social context around that. *

It sounds like the topic for a separate thread, rather than trying to make it the subject of this one tbh.

That’s fair. As I said earlier I was raising what I thought was an additional point while never disagreeing with the central points in the OP. I personally think it’s an interesting conversation to be had but it seems like critical analysis isn’t very popular here.

But in a general sense - I think it is worth discussing the aversion to bi women in the sense that they’re seen as having been ‘defiled’ by a man and made less worthy, because there is A LOT of social context around that

I've no idea what you're on about- who thinks this?

But how many times do you need to be told? I don't fancy women. And tbh I really don't like your attitude.

I have an ex that used to try to use coercion to get sex when he wanted it. I recognise the tactics and dynamic of coercion; the main one of course being that one person wants something that the other does not want to give; and they are prepared to ignore their boundaries to get it.

MY ex used to demand explanations. His demands used to be dressed up as 'just trying to have a reasonable adult discussion'. If I went along with his reasonable discussion, the conversation would lead to another attempt to get what he wanted.

You don't owe anyone sex, and you don't owe anyone an explanation.
The more pressure they apply the more you should say no.

@MissBarbary

But in a general sense - I think it is worth discussing the aversion to bi women in the sense that they’re seen as having been ‘defiled’ by a man and made less worthy, because there is A LOT of social context around that

I've no idea what you're on about- who thinks this?

But how many times do you need to be told? I don't fancy women. And tbh I really don't like your attitude.

If you’re straight this literally doesn’t apply to you so I don’t know why you’re making it about you. I’m sorry that open mindedness and social dilemmas offend you but that says more about you than it does me.

Amazing how women who persist in saying 'no' frequently get the 'I wouldn't fancy you anyway' or 'you're just too stupid to understand my brilliance' responses. Sometimes both

Critical analysis is very popular here.

You simply dont like that others are years ahead of you in the Sex/sexuality conversation and subsequent analysis.

No means no is the red line.

A necessary one.

Firm borders are required for certain groups:

Children
Homosexual women
Mentally compromised women
Incapacitated women (in comas/in prison)

Lesbian women, from the above list, are the most able to say "No". With, or without explanation.

They are the gatekeepers for bi-sexual women or men being in their sexual fold.

Or, what Maud said

So it’s fine to make assumptions that bi women are more promiscuous, prone to STIs and unable to be faithful is it? Or it’s fine for men to only want to date them because they fetishise them? I don’t think prejudices are “spurious” personally. I think they’re harmful to the women on the receiving end

Who is making these assumptions?

I can see several reasons why someone might not want to date you- although none of them are the ones you've listed.

Okay so academics studying sexual politics and questioning how our preferences arise are just trying to manipulate women are they? Kate Millett (a radical feminist) was trying to erode women’s boundaries by saying sex and attraction doesn’t form in a vacuum? Tell me again how you enjoy critical analysis?