What does CIS mean?

[Babysharkdoodoodood]

I mean really?
I was discussing (ranting) about this with DH today. Trying to explain why I'm a woman and not a cis female.

Then he come out with this beauty (not being nasty): Doesn't it just mean Cunt In Situ?

I was absolutely howling mainly because it's true

@continuallyconflating

Looking at a couple of the points in that letter: (Which again uses DSD individuals to do all the heavy lifting)

The relationship between sex chromosomes, genitalia, and gender identity is complex, and not fully understood.
Not surprising as no one has yet come up with a non circular definition of gender identity

There are no genetic tests that can unambiguously determine gender, or even sex.
re gender: Not surprising as a genetic test is unlikely to show a social construct
re "or even sex": A very odd statement that isn't referenced and must be placing an undue burden on the qualifier "unambiguous"

Furthermore, even if such tests existed, it would be unconscionable to use the pretext of science to enact policies that overrule the lived experience of people’s own gender identities.
And this seems to be saying, lets ignore evidence based reality and rely on atomised individual feels

It’s odd as you can easily consent to this test for your embryo and know the sex in the early stages.

Are they Vanuatu pigs by any chance?

As your quotations suggests, that would be very unlikely, wouldn't it?

Why are you talking about DSDs @Shizuku?

Are you trying to tell me has male and female genitals?

You know that brainwashing cults are big on conspiracy theories, don't you?

What, like it’s impossible to tell what sex a mammal is?

I think from now on, I will try my best to only call someone cis if they are known to refer to trans women as male. That seems fair.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

You know that brainwashing cults are big on conspiracy theories, don't you?

What, like it’s impossible to tell what sex a mammal is?

No, that a sinister cult is brainwashing the world's most brilliant scientists. I mean, it's right out of James Bond.

So it is a punishment @Shizuku!

Good to see you being honest with yourself

First step to not being a numpty

Like the conspiracy theory you are peddling?

Do you genuinely believe that it’s impossible to tell what sex a mammal is @Shizuku?

@Shizuku

Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling

The suicide statistics alone (whether or not someone transitions) and the disabling nature of surgery which mutilates healthy men and women is more than enough to prove that this disorder is distressing and/or disabling.

@Shizuku

I think from now on, I will try my best to only call someone cis if they are known to refer to trans women as male. That seems fair.

The term is then clearly a spiteful little insult if you are using it to nip at people who don't conform to your ideology. You're using it to send a message about what you think of the person.

It is a nonsense word.

Wait, I am confused. I thought trans ideology said that

1. male and female are biological categories relevant in medicine (and in sex change - do you need testosterone or oestrogen, do we remove your breasts or create silicone breasts?)

2. man and woman are to be redefined as social categories that do not necessarily map to a person's biological sex of male or female.

So, under gender ideology it would be fine to say transwomen are males but not transwomen are men

Has that changed recently?

If so what are the new words to indicate whether a trans person is a transwoman or a transman, whether they need to be booked in for a mastectomy or a boob job?

Well said @tibtom. 'Cis privilege' does not exist. @hibari will no doubt tell us otherwise while conveniently ignoring the fact that NO trans women have been murdered in the U.K. whereas it took Jess Phillips FOUR minutes to read out the names of women murdered.

They always disgrace themselves in the end

It feels a bit like playing with your food, but I quite enjoy getting them to that place

Ah, so the word ‘cis’ is a way of punishing non compliant women

I for one am loving all the educating on this thread. More please!

The term is then clearly a spiteful little insult if you are using it to nip at people who don't conform to your ideology. You're using it to send a message about what you think of the person.

Yes. So much for "neutral description".

Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling

Then I don't see any basis for considering their identity issues an urgent medical priority.

Help me out here.

It seems to me to be perfectly sensible for a bunch of scientists to believe that it's wrong to pass a law which makes someone's civil or sex based rights dependent on a genetic test. I'm also sure that a bunch of scientists would sign such a letter without considering the implications of some of the sociological terms in it.

It also seems fairly clear to me that the way in which the sex of an individual arises is complex, and involves genetic, hormonal, and other factors dependent on the environment. In fact I'm sure I've read that in a book somewhere. However, it still results in one of two sexes. Male, female. There are no others. Developmental disorders do not result in any third kind of sex.

This has degenerated into bickering. What is the argument actually about?

Men and women haven't been bred over thousands of years by a group of people, to make ones with different sex characteristics.

OR HAVE WE?

The argument is about if it is reasonable to suggest that, excluding known DSD, is it reasonable to accept that sex can be misdiagnosed with females being incorrectly labelled as males
I think

is it reasonable to accept that sex can be misdiagnosed with females being incorrectly labelled as males

Cos lady brain

Or something