Sisters Uncut

[PegasusReturns]

Sisters uncut who are said to be a driving force in turning last nights gathering from a vigil to a protest are now protesting on behalf of “women murdered by the state”.

Two of these “women” are rapists who brutalised children.

How can anyone be ok with this?

JJ I think we are using a different measure of success to you. We would like to see more funding for abuse services. Some actual action taken by the justice system against men who abuse women (rather than jepodising trials by being in contempt of court). We would like to see support funded by migrant women who have no recourse to public funds and might be turned away from a refuge. We would like to see a greater awareness of coercive control amongst anyone in power especially the family court and an end to victim blaming. The number of people who turn out to a protest while heartening is not in itself an achievement unless you are an organisation that is all about protest.

It is not doing a huge service to transwomen to amplify the voices of those who are violent and abusive and to picket protests about rape. If people see transwomen committing violence against women it is not going to promote support for them as a community is it?

It is REALLY useful for threads to go back over the old ground
and bring us up to date
as everybody learns something new especially me and links between sources pop out

But, for anybody who thinks these are new problems

At a time when we are asking the male sex to stand up and acknowledge the extent of MVAWG, it does transwomen no favours to pretend that they are not also part of the problem. Transwomen, non binary people born male, gender fluid people born male and men , all share the same patterns of criminal behaviour and all groups have to take this on board. Transwomen pretending that their community share female patterns of criminality to justify their inclusion in female spaces are not just lying but are potentially complicit in furthering future male violence on women. Any so called " feminist " group who also perpetuate this lie are beneath contempt.

twitter.com/SistersUncut/status/1371515373305131013

...Joy Gardner... For black women whose deaths to(sic) not register in public consciousness

Not disputing the general point that BAME deaths have less media capital.
But saying Joy Gardner isn't (wasn't) a name in public consciousness shows a fair bit of historical ignorance
Of all the names on the list, hers is one that people of a certain age would certainly be familiar with

That Monty Python crew knew a thing or two.

Who'd have thought that slogans we laughed at as rightly ridiculous 20 years ago would now be taken seriously, to the point that women are punched, sacked, and have to raise money to take public institutions to court to clarify legal women's rights in this country.

I had a wonderfully cathartic laugh at that skit. THank you @ListeningQuietly

While I agree with Datun that this board is the biggest feminist mobilisation there is... I think it's also worth remembering that the womens marches in 2017 saw approx. 100,000 women marching through London and many more marching in other cities across the country, and across the world.

SUs protests in recent days may have had lots of attendees... but nobody should be kidding themselves that these are anywhere near the biggest of the last 10 years.

I think that person making demands of the Reclaim These Nights organisers demonstrates whose voices are loudest when you prioritise gender over sex

But saying Joy Gardner isn't (wasn't) a name in public consciousness shows a fair bit of historical ignorance

Indeed. In fact, I saw a tweet from someone yesterday talking about the vigil and saying that it was only now, when the police started using violence against white people, that we sat up and took notice. Which was so fucking infuriating. Because all my life I've seen the police use violence against white demonstrators - Orgreave being the prime example, but I also remember Blair Peach (a New Zealander killed by police), Alfie Meadows, who had brain damage after a police assault and so on and so on. The sheer, smug-faced ignorance of the person who said that.

Sorry, going off topic a bit.

@TheHamsterCatcher

While I agree with Datun that this board is the biggest feminist mobilisation there is... I think it's also worth remembering that the womens marches in 2017 saw approx. 100,000 women marching through London and many more marching in other cities across the country, and across the world.

SUs protests in recent days may have had lots of attendees... but nobody should be kidding themselves that these are anywhere near the biggest of the last 10 years.

I completely agree.

From the SU feministo a pp posted:

The services funded must offer flexible, trauma-informed support from the early stages, through crisis and into recovery. They must be accessible to all survivors, who must be able to choose to access services run for and by their community.

who must be able to choose to access services run for and by their community.

And if that community (for say religious reasons,) insists on single sex services?
How does that circle get squared?

Gina from Sisters Uncut on Times Radio now being interviewed by John Pienaar.

@Ifyou if we want this case to go to trial I think it's really important that we don't say things on here that could be construed as assuming guilt. I'm fairly sure MNHQ will amend your post if you ask them.

@Juliesipadwillcallyouback

Christ, Owen Jones is retweeting them now - that's right, Owen 'I'm so compassionate and kind unlike everyone who disagrees with me who is a rabid right wing bigot' Jones appears to be endorsing a group who have form for physically preventing women meeting up, defending a male who is on camera punching a woman in the face, and who want to pay 'tribute' to male child rapists.

I'm embarrassed for him.

Never not embarrassed for him

Christ, Owen Jones is retweeting them now - that's right

Almost pipped jj's endorsement as least surprising event today.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It will just give men another 'mad feminists' stick to beat us with.

Good point

I wonder if that's the idea. Divide and conquer etc.

A representative of Misters Uncut was on 5 Live Breakfast this morning. She sounded like a young, middle class woman from the Home Counties.

All a bit meh, really, but the responses to her from listeners weren't positive.

Here www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000t5tl from 2.27 if anyone wants to listen.

Another impressive turn out tonight, more focussed on the police bill but still a majority female crowd and lots of feminist banners and chants. I thought they might be pushing it three nights in a row, but there seems to be real energy to this, guess the day of online smears didn't make a dent.

@continuallyconflating

From the SU feministo a pp posted:

The services funded must offer flexible, trauma-informed support from the early stages, through crisis and into recovery. They must be accessible to all survivors, who must be able to choose to access services run for and by their community.

who must be able to choose to access services run for and by their community.

And if that community (for say religious reasons,) insists on single sex services?
How does that circle get squared?

Trauma informed would not include forcing female survivors of male violence to share a space with males. Trauma informed would not include gaslighting a woman who has finally managed to leave an abusive relationship.

They are clearly just using words that they think sound impressive.

more focussed on the police bill

Not wreckers, oh no
Not deliberately changing the focus from attacks on woman to a dilution of the message and broader attacks on police

And considering SU are anti-carceral, this broader attack will inevitably prevent wider support

In a long and tiring life of activism and struggle, I've seen this play out again and again
I'm deeply sad and just want to cry. It seems so hopeless

guess the day of online smears didn't make a dent.

Smears as in spreading unpleasant or untrue rumours? The accusations against this group were backed up, they weren't baseless smears.

What smears would they be?
Saying things which are true and backing them up is not smearing.
If SU would rather people didn't talk about them supporting male violence against women I cant say I'd blame them but that doesn't make it a smear.

@continuallyconflating

more focussed on the police bill

Not wreckers, oh no
Not deliberately changing the focus from attacks on woman to a dilution of the message and broader attacks on police

And considering SU are anti-carceral, this broader attack will inevitably prevent wider support

In a long and tiring life of activism and struggle, I've seen this play out again and again
I'm deeply sad and just want to cry. It seems so hopeless

Given what happened on Saturday the bill became very relevant, because scenes of women being dragged about and assaulted by police will become routine if this bill goes through. I've seen how some in the Met treat female protesters close up many times, the police are a misogynist institution and the criminal justice system is clearly failing women. I think it's understandable that upcoming generations are calling for radical change.

@yourhairiswinterfire

guess the day of online smears didn't make a dent.

Smears as in spreading unpleasant or untrue rumours? The accusations against this group were backed up, they weren't baseless smears.

I think most people understand that if you are going to produce a list of people who have died in prison or in custody some people on that list will have done awful things. That doesn't mean we should have a criminal justice system that drives people to suicide in some cases.

From what I've seen of these protests they are young, passionate and angry. Thousands of women have been prepared to risk arrest to make a stand against male violence. Lots of them are probably getting involved with protesting for the first time. Heaven knows what they must think about a load of middle aged people taking this moment to rant on and on and on at them about trans people and trying to destroy the organisation that inspired these protests. Eye rolls all round I imagine.

Did you just conflate ‘woman’ and ‘female’, jj?