Why AREN’T men more afraid?

[Lessthanaballpark]

In all the discussion around Sarah Everard and women’s safety, it keeps coming up that men are statistically more likely to be victims of violence ( the perps being men obvs)

Yet, why then aren’t men more afraid? I can’t remember seeing much in the news about male on male violence.

Is that because it’s easier to feel sympathy for women?

And why aren’t men afraid?

Is it because they think they have a fighting chance against any perps?

Is it because they are not targeted for being men?

Is it because the violence towards women is more sexual?

I’d genuinely like to know what everyone thinks, because it seems to me that they should be more scared than they are.

Fate I was like you until I was sexually assaulted on the street in broad daylight and now my behaviour has completely changed. I wonder if it’s because “it’s not happened to me, so I can’t identify with it”. As most men haven’t been assaulted (I’m guessing) they can’t identify with it. Most women have, and so our behaviour changes to either prevent it happening, or feel scared ready with fight/flight hormones should it happen again. Our brains remembers the fear, we feel the fear, we pass on that information to other women. So women that haven’t been assaulted can adjust behaviour accordingly, whether they get the feeling of fear fight/flight adrenaline response will depend on an individual I guess. Part of it is the risk to women is higher, so it’s taken more seriously physiologically and psychologically.

As an aside most of the women I know that have been assaulted have been in the daytime and not at night.

Plenty of men are scared, I think, but they put on bravado. When my late mum was in her 80s, she was getting a bus from the town centre late at night, and not worried at all. A young man came and asked if he could wait by her (his bus was at a different stop), and they got talking. He had been mugged, and avoided going out alone at night. I doubt he'd tell his friends his fears, though.

I'm a man, and I wouldn't generally feel afraid walking around most places late at night, although I might be wary in certain situations, eg walking past a gathering of male teenagers - but even there I generally assume that most teenagers are not actually looking to be physically aggressive. If I was walking down a dark alley and a man was walking towards me, I would feel tense.

I suppose I need to understand more the observation that

men are statistically more likely to be victims of violence

Is that a lone man walking the streets being suddenly attacked, or is the context more likely to be arguments outside a pub, or gang-related fighting, or some other dispute between people who know each other? If I'm not involved in any of those contexts, I don't feel like I am at all likely to be a victim of violence.

@LunaHeather

Is it lack of awareness possibly?

I've had some male contacts who were victims of really violent muggings, including being bashed at the back of the head with a brick, one who had the shit kicked out of him because he had no money, and another held at knifepoint after being tricked into stopping his car on a narrow road.

I think all of them would tell me not to be out alone late at night but never thought of themselves as potential victims.

There was also a work colleague who was off sick and asked HR to keep the reason quiet, which of course is fine. But then he resigned, when he came in to collect his stuff, we saw his face was very poorly. He had been punched so hard in a mugging, the eyeball floor had shifted. he left london and went to live with his parents again and said he was scared to live here.

That happened to my brother as he walked home from a country pub. It wasn't even a mugging, they just beat him senseless for the thrill of it. I recently reconnected with an old friend who lives in London. Told me he is frightened to go out at nights now. Ps I can't believe all these comments about gangs etc. [

As an aside most of the women I know that have been assaulted have been in the daytime and not at night.

I agree. When I was young and lived in London, it was the constant "minor" things, and how shockingly bystanders did not step in to help. For example, once on the underground, I got groped by a group of teenagers mid-afternoon, and no-one intervened. I had to get off the train, and they followed me!

Incidentally, when two male friends were attacked at random in the afternoon on High Street Kensington, and the only person who intervened was a middle aged woman!

• It was interesting when the Manchester rapist (who was thought to have raped hundreds of men) was convicted, there were no concerns about men’s safety.

I think that case was seen as highly unusual, both in his targets being male but also because the rapes hadn't been reported (his methodology meant many of the victims didn't even know what had been done to them before the police identified them from the videos). There was no period when it was known that there was a rapist of men at large.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants

It was interesting when the Manchester rapist (who was thought to have raped hundreds of men) was convicted, there were no concerns about men’s safety.

Like a PP, I haven’t really experience the fear others talk about. I grew up in a place and time where bombs and shootings were commonplace, and that’s what you avoided. You didn’t take children into town because of the risk of violence, not because of men. I went to an all girls school and never learnt to be fearful. My mum is strong and any man trying it on was to be sent away with a flea in their ear and a slap on the wrist. I then moved to London and happily cycled and ran whenever I felt like it, with no problems getting late tubes or trains. Perhaps I was naive and foolish; I certainly don’t mean to dismiss the experience of others, and most of my friends will have had unpleasant encounters. Almost all of those encounters were in social environments (house parties, homes) and not the random stranger in a dark alley type.

The Manchester rapist had already been caught when his crimes were discovered, he personally was no longer at large so the danger he posed as an individual was no longer present. In Manchester however changes were made, there were more officers on the streets, bars were giving out more anti drug devices for drinks and a clear message not to go to the home of a stranger alone was very much pushed.

You also need to think about how he targetted his victims, he wasn’t violent or forceful in the way someone may wrongly expect, so people wrongly believed they would be safe from such an attack.

Sadly like female assault the victim who reported him wasn’t believed and was arrested on suspicion of ABH, the police do enjoy punishing victims of crime. Its also likely he would have got away with it if some of his victims weren’t audibly snoring on videos, as he chose to say that it was role play and they were pretending to be asleep. If the police hadn’t searched his phone that victim would likely have a record for ABH while he would have been free to carry on his crimes.

Men are aware they may be a victim of physical assault.

Women know they are more likely than not to experience sexual harassment.

Women know they are vastly more likely to be sexually assaulted or raped than men.

Women know in general they are far less able to fight back or get away successfully than men.

Women know that if a man harasses them in the street his motivation is likely to be sexual.

I think that's a key difference - men largely think someone may want to physically harm them at some point, while women think someone may want to physically and sexually harm them at some point and have most likely had years of harassment from strangers when in the street / pub / club etc so the possibility of a more serious sexually motivated crime feels much more real.

I have been raped. At some points in my life I have genuinely felt I would rather have been killed. For me personally it is the sexual motivation behind potential harm that is terrifying, and I felt that way even before the rape.

I think men don't realise the terror of moments where you fear 'low level' (hate that phrase!) sexual comments or harassment will escalate. The need for constant risk assessment and hyper vigilance is very real for the vast majority of women. Not all, but most.

My husband is, he said to me yesterday that when he was walking to his car a guy was walking behind him so he kept hm looking over his shoulder and the guy said don't worry mate I'm not going to mug you

If I was a man walking through town alone at night I would think, oh I need to make sure I don't get into any stand-offs with another bloke or I might get attacked and/or stabbed. They have one thing to worry about.

As a woman walking through town alone at night I would think, oh, I need to make sure I don't walk anywhere unlit or down a lone side street and I need to stay by other people to make sure that I don't get hassled, followed, touched, grabbed, abducted, raped, held hostage for days and then murdered by one or more men.

This is the difference. They have one thing to worry about, ours is a whole list.

That's me to a t Zanahoria. There is another problem men have without being aware of it sometimes. A friend and I were once confronted by a group of yobs. I was a gibbering wreck but he basically faced them down very calmly. Afterwards I asked how he was so cool in a crisis. He said he had played rugby, was used to physical contact and subsequently was not freaked out by confrontation. ' But this could actually backfire one day ' he said ' because I was very fit back then whereas now....'

It was interesting when the Manchester rapist (who was thought to have raped hundreds of men) was convicted, there were no concerns about men’s safety.

I know that a lot of his victims were not gay, but many of them were and the crime may be seen as such. Given the police care very little about women and have misogyny running through their very core, do you really think they cared as much about this?

If it was a man killing loads of men in a nonsexual way, they would have been on top of it a lot earlier.

To the women who aren't afraid, I get that. I used to walk and cycle in the countryside alone a lot. I wasn't really afraid. One day I met a perfectly normal man and, instead of him saying good morning and walking on, he told me he was going to rape me. He didn't. I don't know if he even meant it or was just testing the waters but I have never felt so scared. I often think about that now when I choose which path to walk down - and yet nothing physical actually happened. Fear is very powerful.

@BigBamboo

It was interesting when the Manchester rapist (who was thought to have raped hundreds of men) was convicted, there were no concerns about men’s safety.

I know that a lot of his victims were not gay, but many of them were and the crime may be seen as such. Given the police care very little about women and have misogyny running through their very core, do you really think they cared as much about this?

If it was a man killing loads of men in a nonsexual way, they would have been on top of it a lot earlier.

He had hundreds of victims, three of them were gay, he specifically targetted straight men.

Young boys/ men can walk the streets afraid. Wrong post code, male grooming for county lines/ gangs etc. Etc. This is a real fear depending on where you live.

To be honest, more also needs to be done regarding the amount of young boys/men dying on our streets. Often people read the headlines and assu.e the victim was a criminal. Often not the case. 😔

@sashagabadon

I think it’s because men might be mugged or attacked for their phones or wallet but women are mugged for this too. Men are not attacked for their sex on the whole. They are not abducted by strangers and raped and murdered. They do not get approached in the streets and harassed by other men or women as women and girls do. They do not get catcalled by women in white vans or groups of women on the streets. Teen boys do not get targeted sexually by women age 20 to 70.

Very good point.

Is it because we're taught to be wary from a young age? Or because from childhood, it's more lively to be the boys who give you the Chinese burn for a laugh or barge into you or sneer or loudky call you swot or dog if you speak up in class? Then the sexual side of it as a teen? Then making yourself small to get past men without touching them in crowded places.

I was fearless as a teen/ young woman in my 20s, regardlessof experiences. I'm taller than most men and.I felt invincible and would walk home from the pub alone in the dark. But I think much of that came from alcohol. I suddenly felt a lot more afraid as a new mother, because I was so much more vulnerable.

My husband and son are afraid. In fact they are more cautious than me or my daughter when walking home alone etc. They are both very slight men though, Dh is 5ft 6 and less than 9 stone. Ds is 17 years old and only 5ft 2.

My Dd scares me sometimes, it’s like she has a it’ll never happen to me attitude. She lives away at college and only last week went for a walk at night round the town before bed to help her to sleep. She’s had a very sheltered upbringing whereas Ds is more streetwise and I’ve certainly had occasions where he’s been on the phone to me whilst walking home because he’s felt unsafe.

The Manchester rapist used his non threatening appearance to his advantage, befriending men out on the streets who looked worse for wear or a bit lost. I have been in similar circumstances many a time when I was younger and I doubt and I would have been aware of that sort of threat.

My DH just said that a few months ago he was walking home from dropping his car off at the garage .
It was Industrial estate area so no one around in the evenings & a very quiet lots of open car yards & no cctv and it runs along a cycle path it wasn’t late but dark and very little lighting .
A young woman was ahead of him and as he approached her he walked out into the rd giving her a wide berth as I’ve always told him to do 😂 - shows he listens
He said he could actually sense her fear and relief as he walked past .
He said he wanted to ask if she was ok but didn’t want to scare her by being a weirdo speaking to her.
So as he walked on he made sure he was a fair distance in front of her so she felt no threat from him but also If anyone bothered her she would have been able to shout out and he would hear her.
Had someone wanted to have attacked her she would have stood no chance as it’s not an area people are in at night

So I have internalised the "what was she doing there?" narrative

Fears are developed so they feel instinctive. I know women who
would not arrange workmen to come into their house when alone, but
I have done that loads and don't think of it as an issue

I've done the narrative thing, I often say in my head (obviously) what if I was to be found dead here, what motives would be put on me, how many reasons would be dragged up as to why I shouldn't be in that place at that time.

I used to have no choice with the workmen thing, I lived alone and you can't always get a friend round. But if I felt threatened i would make up a living in partner of some sort usually a male one who was ex forces or similar.
I have been known to say that no it's not my place I'm just here to wait for the trades to come and do the thing then I'm off home. But thanks for asking.

I've asked DP who btw said fuck that when the news mentioned a curfew for men. Then shrugged when I said originally that was for women, how is that better.
He said hes been in lots of fights as a younger man, but now avoids that and does not feel particularly scared at going out at night.

@zanahoria

I am a man. I was assaulted several times when I was younger, not serious beatings nor muggings just happened to bump into the sort of bloke who wanted to punch somebody. I think a lot of violence against men is of this nature. It always shook me up a bit but never really changed my habits. I never really ever expected it to be worse than that.

zanahoria I'm sorry this happened to you, did you report it? (Also sorry for singling out your post as other blokes have said similar, but yours makes a succinct point). However to me this down playing of 'oh I got a random punch, it happens' type thing is just not okay. We're supposed to live in a 'civilised' society so being attacked is just not on. Why isn't more being done? Why aren't more men up in arms about random acts of largely male aggression?

Also, do men stalk other men?

I can imagine it happening with gay men stalking other gay men, but men don't really stalk other gay men.
Obviously women stalk men but statistically they don't go into murder them.

It's a great question OP. Thank you for posting it. It's been fascinating to read responses from male contributors. And just as eye opening to see the dismissive attitude of some women (NAWALT) on this of all boards.

Magnificentmug12 - 'I think it’s because of sexual assault. I’d rather be beaten up like a bloke than be raped then beaten up too.'

Really? On a discussion where people have described life-threatening and life -changing injuries? Do you have a cartoon image in your head of some Beano-esque black eyes being treated with a bit of steak and an elastoplast? Imagine if I had said I'd rather be raped than stabbed and left to bleed to death in a gutter. Oh, the outrage that would have ensued...

I think another reason is,when a woman is murdered, there are calls for women not to go out at night, not to go out alone, and so on. I don't think I've seen that after a man has been murdered except possibly gay men.

Absolutely. Women are usually brought up to be careful, told not to walk down that alleyway at night, not to get a taxi alone, to tell someone when they get home. Men aren't.

In recent years, visiting my mum, I would arrive late on a Friday night and she would tell me to get a taxi from the airport, rather than do the last leg by train (involving a 2 min walk along a creepy path). At £30 vs £2.30 I always took the train and walked the creepy path. I can't imagine she would ever say the same to my brother.