What do you think of Andy Ngo?

[ThroughTheBarsOfARhyme]

This is a bit of a tenuous link to feminism, it’s probably more about free speech, but I saw that a member of Mumford & Sons was criticised for praising his book (about antifa) and that his book had previously been banned from Amazon. It seems a bit like TRA tactics and a similar response to Abigail Shrier’s book. I’ve just bought his book to read but I was interested in other’s opinions of him and/or the book. Is he speaking the truth and people are trying to suppress it (similar with feminists) or is he exaggerating and not someone to praise?
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/mumford-sons-winston-marshall-taking-time-to-examine-blindspots-after-praising-andy-ngos-unmasked-book-12241592

I appreciate this really isn’t feminism so I will ask for it to be moved if people think it should be.

I realise my position makes me violent-mob-phobic. However, I can live with the disapproval that brings.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Our violent mob = good Your violent mob = bad

A more nuanced approach might be to view violent mobs as bad whichever identity banner they march under.

Indeed.

Same question to you. Would you have condemned the Suffragettes? Do you condemn the Stonewall riots as well for that matter?

What I see going on here is basically a bunch of testosterone-fuelled gangs, street-fighting and claiming territory. Same as it ever was.

That's what I used to think when in the days of Anti-nazi League protests and others in the 70s/80s.
Well I've take the opposite journey. Used to support Anti nazi League, Hope not Hate but they are not what they were. Just as I supported Robert Mugabe until he went bad.Recognising tipping points in any political movement is essential.

Perhaps if you're straight, a non migrant, reasonably financially secure and not likely to want an abortion or get divorced in the near future then you might not see anything wrong with the Heritage Foundation. However those whose lives would be devastated by the kind of society they wish to see are likely to have somewhat stronger feelings

Do you know anything about the Heritage Foundation? It doesn’t sound like you do.

Recognising tipping points in any political movement is essential.

YY.

It's the difference between having a conditional allegiance and a tribal allegiance.

Same question to you. Would you have condemned the Suffragettes? Do you condemn the Stonewall riots as well for that matter?

Did they beat up unarmed civilians? I believe the cause was just and the women were brave. I condemn unprovoked acts of violence. On all sides.

It's the difference between having a conditional allegiance and a tribal allegiance.

Yes, exactly. If a gender critical feminist attacked a trans person for wearing a TWAW t shirt, I would condemn it.

@UsedUpUsername

Perhaps if you're straight, a non migrant, reasonably financially secure and not likely to want an abortion or get divorced in the near future then you might not see anything wrong with the Heritage Foundation. However those whose lives would be devastated by the kind of society they wish to see are likely to have somewhat stronger feelings

Do you know anything about the Heritage Foundation? It doesn’t sound like you do.

Yes I'm more than familiar with both the policies they are fighting for now and their ultimate aspirations.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Same question to you. Would you have condemned the Suffragettes? Do you condemn the Stonewall riots as well for that matter?

Did they beat up unarmed civilians? I believe the cause was just and the women were brave. I condemn unprovoked acts of violence. On all sides.

No the Suffragettes sent letter bombs and set fire to people's homes. Interesting to know you would have been one of the ones condemning them though.

Are you saying it's not okay to attack unarmed civillians (and that's hardly a mainstream BLM or antifa tactic) but it's fine to throw bricks at the police as happened at Stonewall? Or that this was provoked by police violence and so okay but BLM protesters provoked by the repeated murder of black people by the police should be codemned?

mobile.twitter.com/christophelston/status/1370550679606018050

Is this kind of violent protest ok?

@334bu

mobile.twitter.com/christophelston/status/1370550679606018050

Is this kind of violent protest ok?

I have no idea what happened prior to that and I don't believe a word he says. But no, if he was just stood there with a placard I don't support it.

Yes I'm more than familiar with both the policies they are fighting for now and their ultimate aspirations

They are mostly pro-business. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I’ve personally never liked them due to their advocacy of the Iraq war debacle, but it’s a completely mainstream organisation.

I wonder what you think is the ‘ultimate aspiration’ ... it’s such an odd think tank to focus on

@UsedUpUsername

Yes I'm more than familiar with both the policies they are fighting for now and their ultimate aspirations

They are mostly pro-business. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I’ve personally never liked them due to their advocacy of the Iraq war debacle, but it’s a completely mainstream organisation.

I wonder what you think is the ‘ultimate aspiration’ ... it’s such an odd think tank to focus on

They are not just pro business. They promote mass workfare policies, want to limit or prevent legal abortion, scrap gay marriage and any LGBT equality laws, cut medicare funding, prevent no fault divorces, introduce immigration laws such as a ban on people from certain countries and make it near impossible for parents of children to get divorced. And that's just what they say out loud.

They promote mass workfare policies, want to limit or prevent legal abortion, scrap gay marriage and any LGBT equality laws, cut medicare funding, prevent no fault divorces, introduce immigration laws such as a ban on people from certain countries and make it near impossible for parents of children to get divorced. And that's just what they say out loud

This is a complete exaggeration of their views. Yes, they are not supportive of abortion and they were not supportive of gay marriage in the past (they’ve since moved on like everyone else).

No, they don’t want expansion of welfare, that’s not their thing. I feel the same, actually, in that creating jobs is better than creating dependency.

But I disagree with the Heritage Foundation on immigration, they are actually pretty pro-immigration in that it helps business; I see that it suppresses working class wages.

And is no-fault divorce even a thing in the UK? Are you American?

Yes I'm more than familiar with both the policies they are fighting for now and their ultimate aspirations.
You seem to be fuelled by the idea that you are rooting out the devil. Unfortunately the devil resides in everyone. As soon as you say your cause is so just it excuses anything you no longer have any moral justification.

No the Suffragettes sent letter bombs and set fire to people's homes. Interesting to know you would have been one of the ones condemning them though.

No, I just don't support unprovoked violence against people. I'm not sure why you find that hard to understand. I would have fully supported the cause. Had I been around in 1918 maybe I would have felt differently. In Portland today though, I don't support either the right wing or the left wing thugs. They're just rentamob.

As soon as you say your cause is so just it excuses anything you no longer have any moral justification.

I agree. This is what scares me about these people.

As we know from history, the consequences of that approach on both the left and the right are horrible.

Are you saying it's not okay to attack unarmed civillians (and that's hardly a mainstream BLM or antifa tactic)

Hardly a mainstream antifa tactic, okay then, I ask you again jj what had the women who had been trafficked into prostitution and pornography and ultimately escaped done to deserve being attacked by antifa flag waving thugs in Paris last Sunday?

I'm actually seeing far right Christian conservative groups defended on a feminism board.

You're basically saying, "I look quite nice in this green dress."

Hibari

Earlier you accused someone of being a 'literal nazi'. That's a serious accusation.

I'd never heard of the person before this thread, so I asked for some evidence. You've yet to supply any.

Why would anyone take you seriously if you throw around accusations without anything to back them up? Why would I listen to any of your other 'arguments'?

@aliasundercover

Hibari

Earlier you accused someone of being a 'literal nazi'. That's a serious accusation.

I'd never heard of the person before this thread, so I asked for some evidence. You've yet to supply any.

Why would anyone take you seriously if you throw around accusations without anything to back them up? Why would I listen to any of your other 'arguments'?

I provided you all the information you need to do your due diligence.

I also stated that I don't draw a line between nazis and wilful nazi enablers.

If you can't be bothered to look, what's the point in showing you?

So that’s ‘no evidence’. Got it.

If someone wants to argue like a pre-teen that’s ok I suppose, but why would they expect anyone to take them seriously?

@UsedUpUsername

They promote mass workfare policies, want to limit or prevent legal abortion, scrap gay marriage and any LGBT equality laws, cut medicare funding, prevent no fault divorces, introduce immigration laws such as a ban on people from certain countries and make it near impossible for parents of children to get divorced. And that's just what they say out loud

This is a complete exaggeration of their views. Yes, they are not supportive of abortion and they were not supportive of gay marriage in the past (they’ve since moved on like everyone else).

No, they don’t want expansion of welfare, that’s not their thing. I feel the same, actually, in that creating jobs is better than creating dependency.

But I disagree with the Heritage Foundation on immigration, they are actually pretty pro-immigration in that it helps business; I see that it suppresses working class wages.

And is no-fault divorce even a thing in the UK? Are you American?

So not just pro-business then, pro-life and anti woman's rights as well. They haven't dropped their opposition to gay marriage, they have dropped actively campaigning on it because they know for now they have lost. Their website is full of articles calling for children to be brought up by their natural mothers and fathers, making divorce more difficult and recognising that marriage is a union between men and women.

They are far from just a pro-business group. They are a deeply authoritarian religious organisation with extreme economic views which include scrapping almost all initiatives to combat climate change.