The reaction to superstraight

[FleurPower123]

Hey all,

I usually lurk and read threads but I fancied having a chat about this topic as I've been reading with interest - quite new to the whole trans debate and still a bit overwhelmed by it all. Was blissfully unaware a month ago and I've now found out what a rabbithole the whole thing is!

I've no doubt many people are using the superstraight thing as a means to poke fun at the trans lobby, but I also believe at least part of it may have sprung up as a reaction to the whole suffocating 'no debate' standpoint and the absolutely unflinching self indulgence shown by some TRAs with seemingly no empathy to balance it out - e.g. "I'm scared to share changing rooms with men but how very dare you have a problem sharing with me (a man)".

I watched a YouTube video where people were criticising the superstraight trend, and one young guy said (paraphrased) "if you were to date a trans person and really like them, but then find out they were trans and dump them you'd be transphobic."

Surely what you'd actually be is a victim of 'rape by deception'? People have actually been sent to prison for pretending to be the opposite sex and tricking unknowing people into sleeping with them - like Gayle Newland and Gemma Watts who posed as men to sleep with other women and received prison sentences.

I was a bit confused by this seeming implication that you'd be in the wrong if somebody concealed their sex from you and you then became angry upon finding out and dumped them.

Hoefully, this isn't the part where I find out I'm a horrible bigot... 😬

nauticant, I think that is such a good point. It would be terrible if anyone tried to appropriate the sexuality or gender of a famous historical person to twist it into some activist agenda.

I am sure that the #super umbrella is way to humble and noble to ever do something like that. Let us all be mindful and respect history.

@nauticant

The quote is attributed to Napoleon Bonaparte Datun. He might also have been #superstraight.

In fact, it's interesting how, if you go looking through history, how many people appear to have been under the #super umbrella or as it's known "People of Super". However, we must be wary of #super-ing people who actually had other sexualities.

Indeed. SuperStraights have always been there, we just may not have realised.

"Anyone who identifies as a woman is a woman and anyone who identifies as a man is a man in every sense, including biology."

I'm hoping that a superstraight doctor doesn't get their patient killed. Or maybe there is diversity of opinion on this point and not all superstraight think the same way.

Zinco, I don’t think they do that yet. TRAs are feeling very excluded and sad about that.

There is a TikTok video where a woman was called a Terf for claiming that women had different symptoms for a heart attack than men. I think there is a trans woman out there who is desperate to have a “lady heart attack” if she ever has any issues....

(Sorry cannot link)

Well, might the position there be that the Medical opinion is mistaken? There is no difference between women and men when it comes to heart attack symptoms.

The confusion probably arose when researchers correlated heart attack symptoms to people’s chromosomes or genitalia.

Now we understand that those have nothing to do with whether you are a man or a woman we find the woman/man correlation disappears. Because the terms “women” and “men” actually refer to groups of people who identify as those things. So each group, being composed of people with a mix of different chromosomes/genitalia will have a mix of symptoms.

I suppose there will still be a correlation between chromosomes/genitalia and heart attack symptoms. But that wouldn’t say anything about men and women, as I understand it.

I might be wrong. I’m not really an expert on this stuff. Just trying to get on board with the way we’re doing things now.

@MaudTheInvincible

Already we know exactly which sex you are. See how it works?

I take this back I'm now thoroughly confused about your sex.

Love your work today, brava/o

The SuperStraight subreddit raised over $4.5k for Vancouver Rape Relief within about a day or so

The gofundme page has apparently been removed. They were at $7,000.

I'm hoping it's a glitch, but...

@yourhairiswinterfire

The SuperStraight subreddit raised over $4.5k for Vancouver Rape Relief within about a day or so

The gofundme page has apparently been removed. They were at $7,000.

I'm hoping it's a glitch, but...

It's not a glitch.

I have a very woke daughter so my views are often challenged and she explains her views. She mentioned last night about super straight and that if someone was a fully transitioned trans man and that was the only thing that put me off then yes that would be transphobic. I didn't agree with her and I understand a lot of people wouldn't accept that but I did see her point of view as when I thought about it it might not actually be a deal breaker for me. She also explained that an actual dealbreaker could legitimately be not being able to have children with this partner which wouldn't then be transphobic. It's always interesting to have a debate with her and I do think that society on a whole will eventually benefit from this generation and their views.

What would your daughter think if the hypothetical transphobe was a lesbian and her squeamishness was over a transwoman seeking to have a relationship with her, where the transwoman has not had any surgical modifications, might not have had any drug treatments, and in fact might always present in a masculine way?

#superstraight is about anyone being entitled to assert boundaries over their sexual orientation, even in respect of trans people.

It all seems so academic, though, doesn't it? IF there was such a person, AND you initially quite fancied them BUT were then put off by X... I mean, in that (rare) situation, adults will think it through for themselves, feel their way and deal accordingly. It doesn't seem like something to start a war over - what we might or might not do in a romantic situation we're not actually in.

@nauticant she's always been very clear about her views referring to fully transitioned and obviously you probably wouldn't go on the date if you weren't physically attracted to that person full stop. That's a different issue entirely.

Kyle Royce's gofundme page, in which he said his family were being financially effected due to his Mother's business being targetted, has disappeared.

But also I've said that to her before. As a straight woman I would need a penis to have a good sexual connection with someone. She doesn't understand that and says if you genuinely fall for someone and then find they have something different in their pants than expected she genuinely thinks no one should be bothered. She's bisexual tho so that would explain her views. She thinks it's really not important tho but I've obv explained to her that not everyone feels that way.

@yourhairiswinterfire

The SuperStraight subreddit raised over $4.5k for Vancouver Rape Relief within about a day or so

The gofundme page has apparently been removed. They were at $7,000.

I'm hoping it's a glitch, but...

What will happen with the donations?

if you genuinely fall for someone and then find they have something different in their pants than expected she genuinely thinks no one should be bothered. She's bisexual tho

Then obviously she wouldn't get it.

But those views are extremely homophobic and shaming/derogatory towards people of other sexualities for daring to have boundaries and sexual orientations different to hers.

I hope to God that's not going to be characteristic of the next generation because that's not progress, that's an awful future. This generation need to get their head around the idea that not everyone is them, the same as them, thinks like them, and that is ok. People are different and that is ok. And it's ok for people to do things you personally don't agree with without you trying to control or harass them back into your personal line. Live and let live: it involves two sides and mutual respect.

I find it mad that this generation have grown up in the #bekind #inclusive #dontjudge era and it's far and away the least kind, least tolerant and most judgy period in my lifetime. The 60s and 70s were better than this.

What will happen with the donations?

I have no idea how it works, Champagne. I really hope VRR can still receive the money, but I'm not sure :(

[quote Looneytune253]@nauticant she's always been very clear about her views referring to fully transitioned and obviously you probably wouldn't go on the date if you weren't physically attracted to that person full stop. That's a different issue entirely. [/quote]
There's a detailed description of what "fully transitioned" entails for MTF on the "new definition of woman brought to you by Twitter" thread. I believe that FTM surgical transition is similarly... complicated, shall we say.

I think we often imagine that the big op will result in something indistinguishable from the real thing, but that is not really the case, sadly for those who have gone down that road.

As a, er, "super straight", I'm quite happy to restrict my pool of potential sexual partners to those with working, organic cocks. If someone wants to call me transphobic for that, they can also call me homophobic for ruling out lesbians with a strap-on, and they will look equally silly making both statements.

She's bisexual tho

Ah. I'm getting a bit tired of the line coming from some bisexual women "I include men in my sexual preference, why can't you?" However it's dressed up.

I can't recall a bisexual man using that line to a gay man about transmen though.

But also, even if one is bisexual, it's completely fair not to be turned on by genitals that have been surgically constructed. It's not the same as "oh I was expecting a cock but there's a cunt, hey ho". It's a whole other ballgame. That's what the word pansexual was coined for, isn't it?

I think nobody, anywhere, in any situation has the right to tell you that you are wrong for not wanting to have sexual relations with someone, for any reason. You don’t have to win an argument or convince anyone of anything. You don’t owe anyone an explanation for why you are not attracted to them. If people judge you for it then that’s unacceptable, in my opinion.

I see people say others have to agree to be open to sleeping with them, or people like them, and it puts me in mind of an insecure, abusive partner.:

“If you don’t do the things I like sexually you don’t value me or love me!”

“Agree with me and do what I want because if you don’t I might hurt myself!”

I don’t know where people get this idea that they can or should dictate what others do. I don’t think people are entitled to affirmation through sex.

As for the argument that if anything like this arose in real life it would be amicably resolved with a chat then...maybe that’s right. Maybe it’s rare and it never happens.

But I think I am speaking from a position of privilege on that because I’m male. I don’t think I as likely to be...desired (most polite way I can put it) by others and objectified in the same way as, say, a young lesbian who might feel uncomfortable if someone approached her who she wasn’t interested in and she felt if she refused contact she would be criticised or vilified for being prejudiced.

I think if anyone ever says “That’s not a valid reason to refuse sexual intimacy with me” then that’s rape culture. And it shouldn’t be tolerated. I haven’t seen something as personal and direct as that in real life but on Twitter I frequently see, “that’s not a valid reason for not having sex with people like me. Reason A might be valid if B but reason C wouldn’t because D.”

I think that’s scary territory.

I would want my son or daughter when asked, “but why are you saying ‘no’?” to be comfortable replying, “it’s not really any of your business.”

I don’t think that is being made terribly clear.

But maybe I’m wrong and maybe I’m seeing something that’s not there.

No pun intended with ballgame

It's really a very new thing this.

There were laws and taboos against interracial relationships precisely because without these people would naturally fall in love across racial barriers. The same with religion etc. The same with gay people. Rights campaigns focussed on being allowed to have these relationships, not being pushed into having them.

There is no equivalent to the demands being made by activists here. And it's not just a few nutters on Twitter, as James Kirkup pointed out, an academic study actually drew conclusions that it was "necessary" for trans people's integration into society that people should have relationships with them and overcome their own barriers.

It's a quite unbelievable demand really, that we should all put aside our own sexual desires and orientations to help out other people.

It's a quite unbelievable demand really, that we should all put aside our own sexual desires and orientations to help out other people.

To help out other people who would be extremely offended by the suggestion that maybe they should put aside their own desires...

And yet they're somehow puzzled that "superstraight" resonates so strongly.

No Supertolerant, I think what you're seeing is very much there, and that is why this Super- idea has become such a big deal. It has caught lots of people's attention because there is an underlying rapey and coercive element to much of the rhetoric around TRA ideology. Young lesbians seem to be in a particularly vulnerable position with regard to this, and I hope they are able to take some comfort and strength from the expressions of support Supersexuals and others have been articulating this week.