The reaction to superstraight

[FleurPower123]

Hey all,

I usually lurk and read threads but I fancied having a chat about this topic as I've been reading with interest - quite new to the whole trans debate and still a bit overwhelmed by it all. Was blissfully unaware a month ago and I've now found out what a rabbithole the whole thing is!

I've no doubt many people are using the superstraight thing as a means to poke fun at the trans lobby, but I also believe at least part of it may have sprung up as a reaction to the whole suffocating 'no debate' standpoint and the absolutely unflinching self indulgence shown by some TRAs with seemingly no empathy to balance it out - e.g. "I'm scared to share changing rooms with men but how very dare you have a problem sharing with me (a man)".

I watched a YouTube video where people were criticising the superstraight trend, and one young guy said (paraphrased) "if you were to date a trans person and really like them, but then find out they were trans and dump them you'd be transphobic."

Surely what you'd actually be is a victim of 'rape by deception'? People have actually been sent to prison for pretending to be the opposite sex and tricking unknowing people into sleeping with them - like Gayle Newland and Gemma Watts who posed as men to sleep with other women and received prison sentences.

I was a bit confused by this seeming implication that you'd be in the wrong if somebody concealed their sex from you and you then became angry upon finding out and dumped them.

Hoefully, this isn't the part where I find out I'm a horrible bigot... 😬

They're still raising money for Vancouver Rape Relief though on gofundme. Nearly 6k at the minute. So if nothing else it's raised money for a great cause.

What “super” is trying to say, I think, is, my sexuality responds to sex not gender identity. But because of the social necessity to accept “transwomen are women/transmen are men”, we get into this muddle. Perhaps the “super” trend is the start of reclaiming language around sexuality and divorce it from gender ideology. Perhaps.

Exactly. It's an attempt to socially re-legitimise sexual orientation. Because having a sexual orientation based on sex is considered exclusionary to those who (say they) don't believe in sex.

That, quite breathtaking, homophobia is becoming perfectly acceptable is very disturbing.

Trigger warning - awful homophobia.

mobile.twitter.com/hatpinwoman/status/1367800814849376263

I read the vile things being said daily but still.... that Twitter link.. repulsive language

@Cwenthryth

The only thing that bugs me about the “super” sexuality thing trending is - it is ceding language to gender ideology (and apologies for use of some of this language here in context) - saying in effect, “ok, so yes lesbians are attracted to women including transwomen, but super lesbians are only attracted to ciswomen”. This is not language that sits well with me personally, both as a feminist and a same-sex attracted woman (albeit bisexual so shielded from a lot of the shit lesbians have to deal with). It is also inaccurate IMO - I’m not sure how to phrase this and not invite deletion, but two people of the same sex in a relationship is a homosexual relationship irrespective of the gender identities of the individuals (and same for opposite sex/heterosexual).

What “super” is trying to say, I think, is, my sexuality responds to sex not gender identity. But because of the social necessity to accept “transwomen are women/transmen are men”, we get into this muddle. Perhaps the “super” trend is the start of reclaiming language around sexuality and divorce it from gender ideology. Perhaps.

I'm choosing to interpret it as taking language back. Albeit via the scenic route.

Call me c*s if that is your preference. However I don't like that word and do not feel obliged to identify myself by it. Instead I identify as Super.

As in

I am a SuperWoman

I am SuperStraight (I was born this way, my sexual orientation is towards SuperMen, despise or find me wanting me for that if you wish but I will resist all attempts to subject me to conversion therapy of any kind, including shaming)

I am a SuperLesbian, SuperGay, SuperBi ally.

Pronouns are SuperShe/SuperHer (SuperLei/Not Applicable in Italian) but don't actually mind if you refer to me as the pronouns you instinctively "read" me as.

I'm treating this the same as those who called me heretic (rather than atheist) I do not believe a priest saying words and performing rituals actually turns the wine into the blood of Christ. All while not being a CatholicPhobe.

I don't choose/prefer not believe it. I just don't.

I don't choose/prefer not to believe it in order to belittle/dehumanise/perform bigotry against those who do. I just don't believe it.

I vastly prefer not being pushed out of group/family events, having insults, threats and Holy Water chucked at me (like an uninvited shower when I wasn't expecting it), and can't say I ever liked or appreciated it. Don't miss it now it's stopped (RIP MIL).

However none of it changed my beliefs. The most it could have induced is a fear of rejection/harm based willingness to lie and say I believed in something I didn't to keep myself included or unharmed. But I'd have still failed a lie detector test asking me to affirm my belief in transubstantiation.

I don't think creating an air of threat or retribution to induce false proclamations of adherence to a belief is #bekind, helpful or ethical. I forgive late MIL cos she was really very unwell. I'm less forgiving of those who do it with the privilege of freedom from severe mental ill health, because they want power, influence, be in the right crowd or just enjoy making people suffer.

So if scenic route is the only option on the map going forward to the right side of history, I'll strap on my most comfortable boots and start walking.

[quote Datun]What “super” is trying to say, I think, is, my sexuality responds to sex not gender identity. But because of the social necessity to accept “transwomen are women/transmen are men”, we get into this muddle. Perhaps the “super” trend is the start of reclaiming language around sexuality and divorce it from gender ideology. Perhaps.

Exactly. It's an attempt to socially re-legitimise sexual orientation. Because having a sexual orientation based on sex is considered exclusionary to those who (say they) don't believe in sex.

That, quite breathtaking, homophobia is becoming perfectly acceptable is very disturbing.

Trigger warning - awful homophobia.

mobile.twitter.com/hatpinwoman/status/1367800814849376263[/quote]
That's horrifying.

Great song

I find the homophobia in this absolutely sickening. What on earth is wrong with people?

@ninetynineAu

The SuperStraight subreddit raised over $4.5k for Vancouver Rape Relief within about a day or so, and they were especially welcoming and supportive of SuperLesbian, SuperGay, and SuperBi people.

Raising thousands of dollars for Canadian rape shelters seems a tad outside the remit of 4Chan, so I'm not the slightest bit convinced by the desperate claim it was a "chan op".

But of course the subreddit which identifies as being "against hate" despised our existence, so, launched a brigading and reporting campaign to have the SuperStraight sub banned. Certain people resorted to previously successful, scummy tactics;
Posting illegal images [involving gore and children], in order to immediately report to Reddit, to 'prove' SuperStraight sub users were breaching Reddit ToS and the sub-mods were just letting it go.

They did this in sufficient numbers to overwhelm the SuperStraight mods, who then had to private the sub. Naturally it wasn't enough, and today, AHS & TRAs are gloating that just as they'd had SuperGay and SuperLesbian subs banned &removed, so now is the SuperStraight sub.

For about a day and a half, I was happy to be part of that sub, initially only because SuperLesbian was destroyed by...the usuals. But I have to say, I loved it. It kind of, in a way, felt like one of the Pride Marches (mid 90s/early'00s); In terms of going thru the year dealing with various levels of anti-lesbian/anti-gay crap, and then for a night surrounded by just everyday people reminding us that they care, they care, they don't want to ostracise, sack, evict, silence, ban, punch, stab, shoot, rape or kill us for being same-sex oriented, and they vigorously oppose people who do, and those who make public spaces hostile to us, then have us thrown out of our own spaces, and/or destroy the spaces we create, threaten, abuse, dox, physically assault, and worse [anti-lesbian rivers come to mind...]

Anyway, I didn't get a chance to post there but- Thank you to everyone who was there in good faith, and was so wonderfully supportive.

#SuperLesbian

I was there for the brief time it was up and got a really good vibe. I was reduced to tears by some of the comments from lesbians saying how wonderful it was to have a place they felt safe.

The fundraising was brilliant and luckily someone also managed to post the direct link to VRR.

What's seen can't now be unseen. So many people learning for the first time what's been going on, and feeling as horrified as we are.

Wow, this thread really took off overnight!

I'm off to work in a mo (work the evening shift) but didn't want to look like I'd plopped a thread and abandoned it. Plenty to read so will be back on tonight. Had hoped to catch up before work but massively overslept as had no less than three separate delivery drivers knocking my door with deliveries for neighbours this morning (first one four hours after I'd gone to bed and then an hour later too 😣).

Watched the start of that Blair White video and didn't even clock she was trans tbh! She is definitely blessed in that respect.

Those homophobic tweets surely can't be real? And that some come from other alphabet letters of the LGBT is horrific.

I can’t conceive that superstraight isn’t accepted but all these sexualities are
rainbowpedia.wikia.org/wiki/Skoliosexuality

I mean this Lithsexuality, or akoisexual, is a sexual orientation condition where the individual feels sexual attraction with the condition that it is not reciprocated or acted upon. is that not a bit incel/rapey?

Does anyone know which page on the original thread, the tiktok video with the guy in the purple wig was on?
Really want to send to a friend.
Also (probably already on here already) reddit has deleted the forums related to this. Quelle surprise...

Eurgh italic fail

@Rockinmomma

I mean this Lithsexuality, or akoisexual, is a sexual orientation condition where the individual feels sexual attraction with the condition that it is not reciprocated or acted upon. is that not a bit incel/rapey?

Lmao, yes, or potentially just being a nervous adolescent who would have no idea what to do with an actual girlfriend or boyfriend.

That's what so much of this is. Shy adolescents who are not ready to deal with adult relationships - and nor should they be - but on the internet nobody knows you're actually 12 years old, and nobody is keeping you away from adult content either.

Can you imagine if Twitter spats took place as an old-fashioned pitched battle in a field? On one side, some sensible grown-ups looking at their watches. On the other side, an awkward shuffle of their adolescent children...

*I'm treating this the same as those who called me heretic (rather than atheist) I do not believe a priest saying words and performing rituals actually turns the wine into the blood of Christ. All while not being a CatholicPhobe.

I don't choose/prefer not believe it. I just don't.

I don't choose/prefer not to believe it in order to belittle/dehumanise/perform bigotry against those who do. I just don't believe it.*

This is it exactly. No-one would think it right to harrass or discriminate against someone for being a Catholic or believing in astrology but it's never been required that other people are also required to believe in those things.

Genuine age verification and visibility of it would change much on twitter and reddit. My reaction to a fourteen year old lecturing me on sexuality and oppression would be quite different from my reaction to a forty year old.

Ridiculously difficult to do age verification and publication while maintaining anonymity though, and I think anonymity is on the whole beneficial, so probably a non-starter.

I don't know how I missed this thread, I just started a new one about the sub being banned so I will get it removed so as not to clutter up the place.

So have mumsnet jumped on the hate speech bandwagon yet or can we call ourselves superstraight / superlesbians etc here?

So have mumsnet jumped on the hate speech bandwagon yet or can we call ourselves superstraight / superlesbians etc here?

If everybody else can say "you are a cis-woman whose sexual orientation is towards cis-men" then I'm not sure how MNHQ could define as hate speech me say "I'm a SuperWoman who is SuperStraight" (Or somebody else saying "I'm a SuperWoman who is a SuperLesbian")

I though the rules meant one was supposed to respect or tolerate what somebody identified their own identity and sexuality as, rather than "no you have to be called what we decide you are called !"

You know, like back in the day when society moved towards calling people gay rather than < insert list of slurs or words gay people didn't appreciate being called >.

See also the use of "people of colour" rather than the terms that used to be used.

I thought the individual got to decide what they were called, and I'm a SuperStraight SuperWoman. To ban/delete me for that would pull up a load of contradictions that would need addressing, wouldn't it ?

You're right Nebbia but people were being deleted in a recent thread for inventing their own pronouns and asking that they be respected. MNHQ decided they were sarcastic and nuked them for it. They were trying to make a genuine point and MN played right into their hands by deleting them. The point is pronouns are completely self decided and can be anything you like when you're on the trans side of the debate. But when you're in the GC camp you don't get to decide anything, and only MNHQ can determine whether your pronouns are worthy.

I wish I could remember which poster it was but it really packed a punch and proved the double standard here when MN deleted them for it.

Superstraight is still going strong on Twitter.

I know some people think it's not "strong" enough because it's not really challenging the underlying ideology. But I picked up a young trans person (they didn't specify a gender) on Twitter saying "it feels like this should be transphobic but it seems OK" and we had a good chat about boundaries and why especially lesbians felt very sensitive to things like "cotton ceiling" because of historically being told they had to accept dick. And that's a conversation that wouldn't have happened without superstraight.

In this polarised world we have to think carefully about how you formulate messages that get through. And sometimes it means a bit of compromise.

Delighted to be able to report that the superstraight subreddit lives on, having migrated to saidit.net/s/SuperStraight/
Just like the lesbian and gay subs did, following their own permaban from reddit after the furry ABDL mods seized control, and made it an unforgivable crime to discuss topics of importance to lesbians and gay people.

Gofundme has shut down the Supers' crowdfunder for Vancouver Rape Relief.

@PotholeParadies

Gofundme has shut down the Supers' crowdfunder for Vancouver Rape Relief.

Wtf Potholes perish the thought that people get to decide who they donate to.