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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help me find the best answer to “Cheer up, love”?

165 replies

RubaiyatOfAnyone · 09/03/2021 16:51

I live near a really beautiful park. A few times a week in nice weather I walk 5yo dd to school through it, pushing toddler dd2 in the pram, and then walk home (about 1.3 miles each way). It used to be a highlight of my day.

A group of 6-10ish dog walkers, in approx their sixties, gather around a bench on the only path through everyday at about the time i head home. One of them is a loud man who is always holding court and giving his opinion, or bellowing hello to people half way across the park. I never really paid attention and don’t really care what other people do, but he is loud enough i was aware of him.

About last June, i walked through this group (no other paths and a steep slope beside that i can’t push the pram on) and he said loudly “Cheer up, love.” I said “i’m sorry?” He repeated “Cheer up” and added something about how miserable I looked. I snapped that that was a ridiculous thing to say to a total stranger, that he had no idea what was going on in my life, and that I wouldn’t “cheer up” just because he had told me to. My life was nothing to do with him. (As it happens i wasn’t uncheerful, I was just pushing a heavy baby up a steep slope and i’m out of shape, none of which was any of his business).

Unpleasant, but i thought that was the end of it. But ever since, every time I walk home they go silent and stare at me from quite a distance as I approach, whisper to each other whilst staring at me, occasionally call things out to each other about me (“oh it’s her, you’d better mind out” etc) and the loud man always shouts over-exaggerated “good morning” or “feeling cheerful today, are we?” That make all his friends laugh.” As none of them socially distance or wear masks, i often have to do a wide semi-circle around them (wide to keep the pram from overbalancing on the slope) and they often call out patronising advice whilst i do it, whilst making no effort to stand back from the path. I know it sounds innocuous and like i’m imagining this but i assure you in real life it’s really obvious, and quite upsetting. These are a mixed group, mainly women, all in their sixties-ish at 9am and i feel as intimidated as i would faced with teenagers in hoodies on a dark night. I hate the walk i previously loved.

Can anyone suggest anything i could say that would stop it? I am not really shy but i get anxious and any scenario i can imagine (including threatening to inform the police which has flitted across my mind) just leads to more harassment because they would just say innocently that they had done nothing wrong, which technically they haven’t. I just want to be left alone. I don’t know these people, i don’t want to stop them doing what they want to do, i just want to walk through the park in peace and quiet. I am not sorry i called him out on what he originally said, but i wish i’d known that it would lead to a situation where the schools closing actually semi-improved my day for selfish reasons. I will resume walking from this Thursday and would like to go with a few rehearsed responses in my pocket (to cut down the chance i’ll just cry. Again.)

OP posts:
Nanny2many · 10/03/2021 15:08

@Aposterhasnoname

Ooo, op, I had EXACTLY this. It was a car salesman and and I’d done the “my expression is my business” thing to him when he yelled “cheer up” at me, in front of a couple of customers, believe it or not. (It was years ago to be fair). Anyway, after that if he was on the forecourt with customers when I passed he always made some comment to them along the lines of what you experienced.

Anyone, one day when I was feeling particularly murderous towards him I stopped in my tracks, turned on my heel marched up to him and stared at him dead in the eye. After a few uncomfortable moments, he asked if he could help me.

Me-you obviously want my attention, so now you have it, fire away.
Him- don’t know what you mean
Me- well you always make some sort of comment about me when I pass, so either you want my attention or you just enjoy making young women feel uncomfortable, which is it.
Him- I was just having a joke.
Me- oh, I love jokes, please share it, I’m sure it’s hilarious.
Him- look it’s just a joke ok
Me- still waiting to hear the joke
Him- just fuck off and leave me alone
Me - I will if you will.
And off I ran. All done in front of his mortified customers. It worked a bloody treat, he never said me another word to me.

You win. This is perfect
PlanDeRaccordement · 10/03/2021 15:55

I’ll probably get flamed for this, but from your first encounter with them:

“About last June, i walked through this group (no other paths and a steep slope beside that i can’t push the pram on) and he said loudly “Cheer up, love.” I said “i’m sorry?” He repeated “Cheer up” and added something about how miserable I looked. I snapped that that was a ridiculous thing to say to a total stranger, that he had no idea what was going on in my life, and that I wouldn’t “cheer up” just because he had told me to.

It sounds very much to me that this is drama of your own creation. To respond to a standard friendly greeting common to mid-60s older generation with a volley of verbal abuse is to create an unfriendly atmosphere.

CardinalLolzy · 10/03/2021 16:21

"Cheer up love" has never been a "standard friendly greeting". I've never heard groups of men or women say it to each other and it's been an example of misogyny for at least the past 20 years (20 years ago I first complained about it and people confirmed at the time it was a rude sexist comment).

CardinalLolzy · 10/03/2021 16:23

Telling a stranger they look miserable and should rearrange their face is hardly friendly.

BalancedIndividual · 10/03/2021 16:29

Just smile, take it easy, and walk by.

Anything else is the reaction they are hoping for.

Floisme · 10/03/2021 16:31

Mid 60s older generation here. It has never been a standard friendly greeting.

ISBN111 · 10/03/2021 16:34

Not RTFT, but if possible i would move the bench away from the path. If bolted/ concreted in, i would ask the council to move it to aid social distancing, and alert them to the fact that there are a bunch of pillocks hanging out there.
If the bench was further away you could ignore them more effectively.

slug · 10/03/2021 16:40

Just smile, take it easy, and walk by.

Why? It's not our duty to be decoration for men. I'm more in favour of the hard stare with a raised eyebrow. But then I have a dozen year's experience teaching 16-18 year old boys and wouldn't expect anyone else to be able to pull that one out of the bag at a moment's notice.

They're behaving like stroppy teenagers. If you have the guts, a patronising "Didn't your daddy ever teach you that it's rude to to shout at ladies/the adults/in public?" may work

PlanDeRaccordement · 10/03/2021 16:45

@CardinalLolzy

"Cheer up love" has never been a "standard friendly greeting". I've never heard groups of men or women say it to each other and it's been an example of misogyny for at least the past 20 years (20 years ago I first complained about it and people confirmed at the time it was a rude sexist comment).
Well it was when I attended university in northern England in the 1990s.... I don’t think it could be classed as “misogyny” there is not hate of women in saying “cheer up, love”. That’s an over reaction from someone with a chip the size of a tree on her shoulder. If anything, older people DO know what younger people with small children are going through, because they’ve already been through that phase of their life.
PotholeParadies · 10/03/2021 16:49

The only tine someone said it to me, I was literally on the brink of tears in a public place because I was in the midst of funeral organising.

Well, I say someone. It was a bloke. It wasn't friendly. Friendly would have been "are you okay?"

CardinalLolzy · 10/03/2021 16:55

Do men tell each other to 'cheer up love' and tell male strangers "you look miserable" with enough frequency that there are thousands of articles about it?

Pointing out inaccuracies doesn't indicate chips on shoulders Grin Grin

FeltCarrot · 10/03/2021 16:57

I had to walk pas a builder sitting in his van on my way to work for a few weeks. Every time he saw me he’d say “Where’s your umbrella?” even if it was a lovely sunny day. It really pissed me off, god knows what he got out of it. He stopped after I was cursing him to myself and one of his colleagues clocked me. Idiot.

mathanxiety · 10/03/2021 17:00

I'm not sure it's actually legal to film someone without their consent.

It absolutely is legal.
It's a public place.
It's repeated incidents of harassment, which is illegal.

www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/ph/photography-advice/
Freedom to photograph and film

Members of the public and the media do not need a permit to film or photograph in public places and police have no power to stop them filming or photographing incidents or police personnel.

mathanxiety · 10/03/2021 17:04

And also:

The harassers have no expectation of privacy in a public place - the OP is not breaking into the homes of these scummy people to place cameras there.

The OP would not be covertly filming.

Notanotherusernamenow · 10/03/2021 17:08

“Does yelling comments at women make you feel better about your small penis?” Or the safer option “Does yelling comments at a tired mum make you feel better about your crippling inadequacy as a man [head tilt]?”

mathanxiety · 10/03/2021 17:16

It sounds very much to me that this is drama of your own creation. To respond to a standard friendly greeting common to mid-60s older generation with a volley of verbal abuse is to create an unfriendly atmosphere.

Do you get out much, @PlanDeRaccordement?

Are you genuinely unaware that this is the phrase used by thousands of disrespectful men towards women who are minding their own business every day on the streets and in the parks of cities and towns across the UK?

goldielockdown2 · 10/03/2021 17:33

No flaming from me, plan, but you should probably consider that the reason yours is the lone opinion and is reflected by no one else on the entire thread, is because you're wrong.

mathanxiety · 10/03/2021 17:37

I don’t think it could be classed as “misogyny” there is not hate of women in saying “cheer up, love”. That’s an over reaction from someone with a chip the size of a tree on her shoulder. If anything, older people DO know what younger people with small children are going through, because they’ve already been through that phase of their life

I'm 56, and it has never been a friendly greeting.

It's a reminder to women - usually women walking on their own - that they may only enjoy the great outdoors if men decide they can.

It's a reminder to women that they may not be out and about on their own terms - no, they must be mindful of men, they must accept that men dominate the outdoors, and they must perform for men when outdoors. They do not have the right to concentrate fully on whatever is in their minds when outdoors, be it caring for children, making decisions, remembering a shopping list, meditating.

Do men express this cheery, friendly greeting to other men? Surely other men should smile?
Do they express this cheery, innocuous greeting to women who are out with another man? Surely if a woman should smile when she's out on her own, she should smile in company?

The 'friendly greeting' is a way to establish a hierarchy.
The hierarchy goes as follows:
MEN
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.
.
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.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Large breeds of dog
women

mathanxiety · 10/03/2021 17:38

Should be italicised:
I don’t think it could be classed as “misogyny” there is not hate of women in saying “cheer up, love”. That’s an over reaction from someone with a chip the size of a tree on her shoulder. If anything, older people DO know what younger people with small children are going through, because they’ve already been through that phase of their life

nursejekyll · 10/03/2021 17:51

'Cheer up, love,' is not a greeting.
'Well it was when I attended university in northern England in the 1990s...'

As a Northern 50+ woman I can assure you that you are wrong.
Did we all have whippets as well?

MarisPiper92 · 10/03/2021 17:56

"Say that again and it won't be me who needs cheering up!"

That's obviously really aggressive and I'd never say it, but I would like to. Favourite so far is "I'll cheer up when you fuck off." Nice and to the point.

cateycloggs · 10/03/2021 18:47

Also mid 60s here and Northern born and bred and frquently told to smile or cheer up when I was young. It's totally an aggressive act of social control. What's it to strangers if you are looking down/unhappy/neutral? Nothing except you are not fulfilling your sexual function as a young woman for a random audience.

Luckily for me I learnt how controlling it is when one day as a child of about 13, I was walking up our street feeling remarkably happy but alone and smiling to myself in the sunshine, an older man pushing a bike took the trouble to tell me I needed to be careful as I could get into trouble smiling like that. Normally I was criticised for looking miserable ( which I was) or pouting. See, unauthorised and unaccompanied female smiling and mark it down, see here showing her natural feelings and tell her to change them. He may or may not have said 'love'. Lesson learnt.

It's actually distressing to read how your morning walks are being ruined by these (male and female ) bullies. does your park have a warden system or the council have a harrassment telephone line? Or a number for a community police officer? Prevention of quiet enjoyment of a public space should be an offence.

willibald · 10/03/2021 18:51

I'd definitely film him. And post it everywhere.

23PissOffAvenueWF · 10/03/2021 18:58

@PlanDeRaccordement - you might like to reflect, for a moment, on the fact that you’re not the only lady of a certain age from ‘the North’ on this thread, let alone on MN.

You are the only one saying ‘cheer up love’ is a greeting.

No. It’s not, and never has been a greeting. Either in ‘the North’, or the rest of the world.

Tomatobear · 10/03/2021 19:04

I know it's mean but you could say very loudly to your toddler "Don't worry, he'll be dead soon!"

Probably a bit inappropriate though Grin

Arsehole man

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