Pronouns in email

[Sammiesnake]

I’ve just been asked to identify my pronouns on my email signature at work and I’m finding it hard to put into words why this upsets me.

For the record, I’m not bothered at all what others choose to call themselves and accept any pronouns asked of me just as I do anyone’s name. It’s up to them.

However, I don’t want to be pointing out that I’m a female in my email signature. Why do I have to announce my gender in a work email? Why is it even relevant at all to my work? I want to be responded to as a competent adult at work, not as a female particularly.

I can’t explain how it makes me feel but basically I find it upsetting that I should have to have my gender visible on every single email I send which really has nothing to do with my gender at all!

Does anyone else feel like this? Have you managed to explain this to your workplace?
Thanks

1) Why have men not participated in the move to add pronouns? Is it because they think they're above this silly nonsense? Is it because they don't see why they should have to affirm their obvious maleness? Or something else?

On another thread someone mentioned that people in her DHs company were told to add pronouns. Iirc, The blokes mostly took the piss and the idea was quietly dropped.

• 2. If someone's name is ambiguous (either because it's non-gender identifying like Alex or Sam, or because it's a foreign name you're not familiar with) what should you do if you want to refer to them in the third person? Use "they" and "them"?

This is pretty common. Using 'they' as a singular for a person of unknown sex has been commonplace for centuries so you can do that. Its so normal it's not really obvious in speech unless someone is labouring the point. And it's usually not too hard to write emails without any third person pronouns at all.

@MumofBees

Or just share your pronouns, because it literally doesn't harm you at all but can make others feel more included and accepted.

Wow, talk about snowflakes...

Or maybe read the thread where women detail exactly what harm can be caused by this nonsense, so you don't look quite so ignorant.

1) Why have men not participated in the move to add pronouns? Is it because they think they're above this silly nonsense? Is it because they don't see why they should have to affirm their obvious maleness? Or something else?

Jeremy Corbyn announced his pronouns.

On another thread someone mentioned that people in her DHs company were told to add pronouns. Iirc, The blokes mostly took the piss and the idea was quietly dropped.

It just seems like the sort of daft idea the stupid women in HR would come up with. This sort of social stuff is a woman thing. Anyway, the woman suggesting it probably has a too-high pitched voice that's outside the range of male hearing.

Going along with corporate nonsense is not very manly - it's a sign of weakness.

Any man who does do it is likely either riding the misogyny train or trying to impress some woman who's into it.

I also thing a lot of men would be a bit embarrassed to do it in case other men took the piss. "What's this 'He/him' gobshite, eh Bob? Hey guys, looks like Bob was a bit worried people couldn't tell she was a bloke! "

@MissBarbary

1) Why have men not participated in the move to add pronouns? Is it because they think they're above this silly nonsense? Is it because they don't see why they should have to affirm their obvious maleness? Or something else?

Jeremy Corbyn announced his pronouns.

I was thinking about that earlier.

Like it was ever unclear what sex and/or gender the bearded man named Jeremy, leader of a party that’s never had a female leader was but, oh! The rapture in the ranks!

If this tries to get introduced in my work there's not a chance I'll be doing it. If there's a fuss I'll explain I feel like I'm being discriminated against for not feeling comfortable to do it.
I'm a female. I'm not putting my pronouns in a work email which is meant to be a professional setting.
It's my decision if I want to put pronouns in an email, You should not be having to force people to do so. It's funny, it's spoken about doing these things to make others feel comfortable and feel inclusive, but if someone isn't comfortable doing so, it's considered poor of them. Funny that. Guess it's not about ensuring all feel uncomfortable.

*comfortable I meant

Actually another thought - as a lot of people here have observed, men have "selective hearing" down as a fine art.

Men have no problem ignoring something or just making some non-committal noise, and then just carrying on doing whatever they want to do.

That really is the best approach for a lot of this stuff - why even feel you have to justify ignoring it? Women need to get the hang of doing this. A man would not feel he needed to "explain" anything. Has the OP actually been asked to explain anything? Maybe it might come to that, but in the interim, forget it. I suspect it's unlikely to get to the point of them compelling it and confronting refuseniks.

Similarly for a lot of Woke tantruming. Just ignore them.

Just watched a good little 15 minute segment by Benjamin Boyce talking about a .

@TheWayOfTheWorld

I am absolutely sick of this shit! And yes, those using it in their LinkedIn profile names just let me know who to avoid.

I also note that (in my professional services sector and extensive wider network) I have seen multiple women announcing their pronouns and the sum total of 2 men doing so (one of whom is the US head of our LBGT network and heading up the pronoun initiative).

You are not alone.

A senior colleague of mine with a gender-neutral name kept getting Mr’ed due to sexist assumptions and so she put her pronouns in her sig pretty early in this trend as a result.

@DadJoke

A senior colleague of mine with a gender-neutral name kept getting Mr’ed due to sexist assumptions and so she put her pronouns in her sig pretty early in this trend as a result.

If she found it helpful, great, though if she was being Mr'd, I'd have thought it would have been more useful to her to specify her preferred title.

@WackyDuck

If asked, I would be so tempted to reply to the pronouns question as follows:

"Grammer isn't my strong point, and I am much more of a numbers person so I would like to be referred to as 01010011 01101000 01100101 00100000 / 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000"

I'd then insist that they used this everytime they referenced me.

Nice!

@ErrolTheDragon

But what if you're non-binary?

53 70 65 63 69 61 6c /52 65 61 6c 6c 79 20 53 70 65 63 69 61 6c

Ooh! Even better

@QuidditchQueen

I an a teacher and have been Zooming lessons for the last few months, obviously, and is do depressing that do many 6th form girls (note:not boys) on their Zoom names are also putting their chosen pronouns -which are ALL she/her.

It's turning up in both healthcare VCS Zooms and similarly, it's mostly women with she/her. Only 2 people didn't on a panel recently and I'm sure they will come under pressure.

I could do with a very neutral response because I'm sure that I'm going to be challenged on this at some point.

Yeah, dislike the ‘doesn’t make any difference to you’ argument.

Ahhh, fear not!!

I now have something to put in my email signature!

Superstraight!!

What are those pronouns?

Supershe
Superher
Superwoman

(emailing hr now!)

I'm confused about womxm! Is that transphobic now? I saw it on a poster about an LGBTQ stuff at university, with inclusivity for trans people! The goalposts don't stop changing...

If it ever comes my way, will just blithely ignore. My sex and pronouns have nowt to do with my work, and nor should they. Funny that not many men are phased by it, when they have the least to lose. Am surprised women are so eager to offer themselves up to the potential for discrimination.

@ErrolTheDragon

1) Why have men not participated in the move to add pronouns? Is it because they think they're above this silly nonsense? Is it because they don't see why they should have to affirm their obvious maleness? Or something else?

On another thread someone mentioned that people in her DHs company were told to add pronouns. Iirc, The blokes mostly took the piss and the idea was quietly dropped.

• 2. If someone's name is ambiguous (either because it's non-gender identifying like Alex or Sam, or because it's a foreign name you're not familiar with) what should you do if you want to refer to them in the third person? Use "they" and "them"?

This is pretty common. Using 'they' as a singular for a person of unknown sex has been commonplace for centuries so you can do that. Its so normal it's not really obvious in speech unless someone is labouring the point. And it's usually not too hard to write emails without any third person pronouns at all.

I have a gender ambiguous name and have only ever had one or two comments over very many years where someone had assumed I was a man. No bother, no stress, no love lost. People pick up other's usage of pronouns, so it would only take one colleague who knew I was female to email someone who didn't, and use a pronoun, then they knew. Really, really didn't matter at all.

I’m quite entertained by the idea that women would be floored by someone calling them “mr” “he” or “him” if they had a unisex name like Sam or Alex. As if male wasn’t always the default in times of doubt! drop down boxes always list “mr” first, I’ve had more junk emails & letters addressed to mr biscuits than I can count. We’re used to it! It’s called patriarchy

I teach French in a secondary school. This hasn’t come our way yet but if it did, I’d be tempered to write (je/tu/il/elle/on/nous/vous/ils/elles/me/te/se/nous/vous/se/me/te/le/la/nous/vous/les/me/te/lui/lui/nous/vous/leur/le mien/le tien/le sien/le nôtre/le vôtre/le leur)
I might just even chuck in ‘y’ and ‘en’ for the hell of it.
Good job I don’t teach German any more ....

I have been Dr wserrab for years. Very happy to be able to drop Ms/Miss/Mrs. Have no intention of ever revealing my pronouns as wish to be judged on my work alone. If someone presumes I'm a man, it won't offend me.

babbaloushka I think that “womxn” is now considered to be transphobic because it was originally created to be inclusive to everyone who identified as a woman (and also possibly to avoid using the -man/men suffix, maybe triggering???) but if TWAW then we should all be able to use “women” because we are all the same. If you use “womxn” to refer to TW you are saying they are not women. I think that’s the theory

I am also Dr Covoid and frequently assumed to be male. I am never offended. I imagine it might sometimes be to my advantage.

I do not wish to announce my pronouns in my email sig because I just find it irrelevant. If it's such a big deal issue for you to avoid being misgendered then put them in but why force others to do it?

Loads of times with international names I have no idea if the person I am addressing is male or female and I don't care. This is implying that it is important for me to know how someone identifies to send a work email to them and I don't see why I should perpetuate the idea that it matters what sex or gender you are at work.

The only time it was useful to me was someone on a placement was non binary and put their pronouns as 'they/ their' and that was a useful hint as to how they wished to be viewed because from their 'presentation' I would not have known (they were male. I could obviously tell that). It was helpful to them not to have to say it to everyone I guess. In that situationist useful but if your pronouns are the standard ones then it's not necessary and just making sex and gender an issue in the workplace when it should not be.

I finally decided I'd just add the first verse of a Status Quo song