Pronouns in email

[Sammiesnake]

I’ve just been asked to identify my pronouns on my email signature at work and I’m finding it hard to put into words why this upsets me.

For the record, I’m not bothered at all what others choose to call themselves and accept any pronouns asked of me just as I do anyone’s name. It’s up to them.

However, I don’t want to be pointing out that I’m a female in my email signature. Why do I have to announce my gender in a work email? Why is it even relevant at all to my work? I want to be responded to as a competent adult at work, not as a female particularly.

I can’t explain how it makes me feel but basically I find it upsetting that I should have to have my gender visible on every single email I send which really has nothing to do with my gender at all!

Does anyone else feel like this? Have you managed to explain this to your workplace?
Thanks

@Eowynthewarrior

I had to travel for business to parts of the world that were particularly dangerous, and especially dangerous as a single woman’s I used to do everything I could possibly do to avoid advertising that fact: used initials only when they assumed I was male and no title. I made sure that my hotel bookings and airport transport cars that were prebooked never used a female title or pronoun. I consider it basic personal safety never to advertise I am female. I even dislike work e mails that make you out a photo of yourself on it

My work email 'photo' is an image of a black hole - no one's ever commented (have they even noticed?)

your name shows that you identify as a woman.
For most of us, it shows nothing more than that we were observed to be girls at birth and our parents chose names according to their gender norms. They are no indication that we 'identify' as anything.

[quote Outwithreason]@WackyDuck

But what if you're non-binary?[/quote]
Nearly sprayed my coffee everywhere with that!

One of my (quite senior, male) colleagues has a photo of his Bassett hound for his profile pic. It's great.
Some of my colleagues don't have photos, just the default silhouette image. We don't do video on meetings, slows the bandwidth and the screens are needed for useful info.
Before we had profile pics, my boss was in California and I never met him. It wasn't till years later I saw his photo on LinkedIn and realised I'd never known what he looked like and it hadn't made one jot of difference.

I have yet to see a set of pronouns on a work email signature or profile that didn’t correspond exactly to the biological sex of the sender . And yes, 95% of those I have seen have been 20-30 something women

But what if you're non-binary?

53 70 65 63 69 61 6c /52 65 61 6c 6c 79 20 53 70 65 63 69 61 6c

Perfect! @ErrolTheDragon

And yes, I am.

[quote Chrysanthemum5]@TheWayOfTheWorld it's not a GC person I know the individual and they are very much a TRA so these are the pronouns we are expected to use [/quote]
Oh, well then in that case they are making the argument themselves as to how nonsensical this is.

I've noticed it creeping into signatures at work, and I'm not sure where it has come from.

Out of courtesy, I would use the pronouns nominated by the individual. I would baulk at it becoming mandatory though. I don't attach any meaning to gender identity; highlighting it seems more regressive than progressive.

Resume’ cover letter has always been my biggest struggle. When you trying to find a job and you don’t know the person who is doing the hiring is a She or a He or their name (yet) so I always had to start out as “To whom it may concern” instead of dear sir or ma’am . Very frustrating trying to keep it gender neutral as possible so I don’t offend anyone

It’s frustrating because I am not good at being creative at keeping it gender neutral as possible. I know if the reader feel out of place just once because I didn’t address my letter to him/her properly, or make it seem like I am speaking to him/her directly; he/she can easily toss my letter away

Sammiesnake (pronouns: undisclosed)
That may make it seem that it is computer generated.

@MumofBees

Or just share your pronouns, because it literally doesn't harm you at all but can make others feel more included and accepted.

Wow, talk about snowflakes...

I have a colleague who is non-binary and who is very clear about the fact that had this policy been forced on them a few years ago it would have been extremely distressing for them to decide what pronouns to put. They hope it never becomes policy at our office because they don’t want other people to have that problem. So no, it is not not harmful to everyone. And perhaps by not putting pronouns you could be making someone who is struggling with it feel included and accepted.

Sorry yeah, I do think it should definitely be a choice. No one should be made to disclose anything about themselves that they don't want to. I can understand why you would and wouldn't one to. Your identity is your choice alone.

But all the GC transphobe nonsense can get in the bin.

"Having pronouns" is the latest fashion of a subset of the middle-class intelligentsia. Participating in this ritual is the new way of marking out who is U and non-U. No company that takes social mobility seriously should be promoting this.

@MumofBees what if the person hasn't decided yet or hasn't come out to their work world. Why do you get to tell them when they do this.
I agree with upthread pronouns are going to be deemed oppressive and transphobic soon because not every trans person will be comfortable with telling everyone.

slow to post sorry.
So you are saying that one side of the argument should do as you say and the other can do as they feel?

Mumofbees: saying it should be a choice is enough to get you called a transphobe or a t**f. And if everyone else is doing it you are likely to be noted as a transphobe, even if you might actually just be struggling with your identity.

Demands for pronouns are so disablist. It causes my godson with ASD acute distress because he sees it as lying, especially when the person asking for he/him pronouns at school is obviously to his eyes a she/her.

My brother has a brain injury which has affected his memory and communication skills and he lives in fear of making a pronoun mistake with one of his (hundreds) of students and getting a complaint made against him.

"My pronouns are sex based just like my oppression"

I can't remember which poster said this but I intend to use it if ever I have to!

I'd quite like misogynistic, ablist, Anglocentric nonsense to 'get in the bin' tbh. But if people want to persist in it that's their choice.

@ErrolTheDragon

But what if you're non-binary?

53 70 65 63 69 61 6c /52 65 61 6c 6c 79 20 53 70 65 63 69 61 6c

I think I prefer this one. It would be much more interesting to implement.

@Chrysanthemum5

I had my first one this week where someone was she/her on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and ze/zim (or ze/zir can't remember exactly) on Tuesday and Thursday. Which really confused me - what if I write an email on Wednesday, and use the 'she' pronoun, but it's not read until Thursday?

That’s bonkers! Sounds like this person is just fishing for an opportunity to wrongfoot someone. We all know what kind of people do that.

It amazes me how we are expected to indulge such silliness in the workplace.

Also for those fearing sexism, for most (not all admittedly) your name shows that you identify as a woman

Are you suggesting that if you have, for example. “Mum” in your username you are identifying as a woman?! That is the very definition of transphobia.

Please do better.

@MumofBees

Also for those fearing sexism, for most (not all admittedly) your name shows that you identify as a woman.

Unless of course that wasn't really your problem with putting your pronouns all along...

Huh? I didnt choose my name, so surely it shows what my parents thought, not what I do or dont identify as. In fact they never asked me.

I have some questions:

1. Why have men not participated in the move to add pronouns? Is it because they think they're above this silly nonsense? Is it because they don't see why they should have to affirm their obvious maleness? Or something else?

2. If someone's name is ambiguous (either because it's non-gender identifying like Alex or Sam, or because it's a foreign name you're not familiar with) what should you do if you want to refer to them in the third person? Use "they" and "them"?

3. What about intersex people? I should think it could be quite "triggering" to have to assert your gender if you have a DSD.