Pronouns in email

[Sammiesnake]

I’ve just been asked to identify my pronouns on my email signature at work and I’m finding it hard to put into words why this upsets me.

For the record, I’m not bothered at all what others choose to call themselves and accept any pronouns asked of me just as I do anyone’s name. It’s up to them.

However, I don’t want to be pointing out that I’m a female in my email signature. Why do I have to announce my gender in a work email? Why is it even relevant at all to my work? I want to be responded to as a competent adult at work, not as a female particularly.

I can’t explain how it makes me feel but basically I find it upsetting that I should have to have my gender visible on every single email I send which really has nothing to do with my gender at all!

Does anyone else feel like this? Have you managed to explain this to your workplace?
Thanks

@Fucket

I gave my dd’s names that could be shortened to masculine names, precisely so that they could use them legitimately on CVS and professional correspondence so they didn’t have to reveal to anyone who didn’t know them that they were female.

Would i hell as like be inserting pronouns in my signature.

Perhaps N/A if forced.

I did this too!

I wonder if we'd do better to view this as an opportunity, replying to HR emails with something like:

Due to the rampant sexism and misogyny in our society, I would like people to use the pronouns they/them when discussing me in written communications. This will allow me an opportunity to be judged on my own merits rather than being pigeonholed as a woman/female and thus (according to research) viewed as inferior to men/males.

Then don't do anything at all - I'm pretty sure they will put such an email in the 'Do not disturb' pile and avoid you thereafter like the plague

It’s such a classic case of ineffectual do-gooding it makes my head spin. The intention is to encourage people who might not otherwise feel able to, to share their gender identity so they can be more comfortable, right?

Imagine you’re a trans person not yet out in your workplace, and the pronouns edict arrives. What to do? You’re not out, you’re not ready to be out, you dont want to put either your sex based pronouns or your secretly preferred ones. Imagine the stress. Do you out yourself before you’re ready, or do you suffer with the wrong pronouns?

It doesn’t even do what it’s purported to do!

Also, shits on women due to stereotype threat. I work in a massively male dominated environment and really don’t need to be drawing more attention to the fact that I deviate from the norm there.

If asked, I may respond with:

I am not comfortable putting my preferred pronouns in my signature but have no objection to you using whatever pronouns you wish.....

In fact, I think that is the perfect email signature.....

Or, can I be pronoun free? You must always, only and ever refer to me by my proper noun?

Wheres the fun in that..

I deliberately use a unisex shortening of my name. This stuff doesn't work for women. It makes life difficult

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gender-inequality-man-woman-switch-names-week-martin-schneider-nicky-knacks-pay-gap-a7622201.html%3famp

It also forces people.to out themselves and I thought that was a hate crime...

I would not be doing it

I've read a number of threads about this, and thought about what I'll do when it happens in my workplace,and I've decided I'm just going to say, 'no thank you'. If HR ask why, I will say, 'because I don't want to'.

Other people will be in different situations but I think trying to explain myself will - at best - be pointless, and that the safest thing will be to give them no information whatsoever.

“It doesn’t even do what it’s purported to do! “
Exactly! Instead it just creates an atmosphere of it’s somehow so bad if you get it wrong. So why is it seen as supportive and kind 😖 Not kind to women.

she/her

I keep seeing she/they. I don't like to ask, but I wonder if they mean she/her and have chosen pronouns without actually understanding what pronouns are and how they work. Otherwise, I can say "When Sally speaks she does so very clearly", but do I also have to say "Tommy, please give Sally's book back to they". Even 'them' would make grammatical but not logical sense. I mean I could use 'them' and not 'they' but why 'she' (denoting female) and 'them' (denoting more than one person or non-binary or summat).

@sashh

I wonder what Philip / Pips Bunce would put?

My answer would be:

Well off the top of my head, I ,me ,
he, him, her, she, it, we, us, you, they, them - have I missed any? These are the ones I use on a daily basis.

I was just thinking about him!

@Floisme

I've read a number of threads about this, and thought about what I'll do when it happens in my workplace,and I've decided I'm just going to say, 'no thank you'. If HR ask why, I will say, 'because I don't want to'.

Other people will be in different situations but I think trying to explain myself will - at best - be pointless, and that the safest thing will be to give them no information whatsoever.

I think that's a sensible stance but in reality what happens is that it's just suggested, and you start to see more and more other people doing it - primarily women - who are not aware of the issues and how it may disadvantage them. And you want to say something, but it's a tricky thing to broach without coming across as an unkind bigot, so you keep trying to work out what to do, while seeing more and more women add their pronouns

Everyone on Instagram seems to be doing this. It makes me cringe.

I got an email yesterday from one of the HR team about a (totally voluntary) 'inclusion week' set of virtual events. Unlike all the people I actually work with - multinational scientists, software engineers, IT people - it had pronouns. She/her, of course. It's my 3rd sighting in the whole company, all from women, course.
The immediate effect was that it made me feel excluded. It suggests the people in charge of 'inclusion' either don't know about the biases against women or don't care.
The company has a sex ratio of under 25% women globally, my perception is they're complacent that's in line with industry norms.

Why have they "got nothing better to do?" not everyone thinks the same way, and if they want to state their pronouns, if it makes life easier for them, why can't they

How does it make life easier for those who state pronouns?
Am genuinely interested in the answer. Because if it does in fact make life easier I'm all for it.

Pronouns majesty/highness.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

she/her

I keep seeing she/they. I don't like to ask, but I wonder if they mean she/her and have chosen pronouns without actually understanding what pronouns are and how they work. Otherwise, I can say "When Sally speaks she does so very clearly", but do I also have to say "Tommy, please give Sally's book back to they". Even 'them' would make grammatical but not logical sense. I mean I could use 'them' and not 'they' but why 'she' (denoting female) and 'them' (denoting more than one person or non-binary or summat).

I think 'she/they' must mean that they don't mind either the normal set of sex-appropriate pronouns or the neutrals used as singulars. No, that doesn't fit with the she/her and and zie/zer or whatever specification of the grammatical variants, but this isn't about making communication easier which is the sole flipping point of pronouns.

I think 'she/they' must mean that they don't mind either the normal set of sex-appropriate pronouns or the neutrals used as singulars

Oh! Is that how it works? !!!

I had no idea.

I am absolutely sick of this shit! And yes, those using it in their LinkedIn profile names just let me know who to avoid.

I also note that (in my professional services sector and extensive wider network) I have seen multiple women announcing their pronouns and the sum total of 2 men doing so (one of whom is the US head of our LBGT network and heading up the pronoun initiative).

6th form girls (note:not boys) on their Zoom names are also putting their chosen pronouns -which are ALL she/her. Will the girls notice that they're the only ones doing this and will they question there actions? One hopes

I vote she/him/god. I had this at work and just didn’t do it. No one said anything.

“At the discretion of the user”

This regularly comes up at work fortunately I'm senior enough that I can push back so I've explained it is unfair to women, and that it makes conversation harder for people whose first language isn't English so I won't be doing it. I've also refused to let my team be forced to add pronouns, and I have refused to let 'cis' become a standard term in our documents.

It's exhausting that it keeps coming up, and I'm fed up providing the evidence that all of this has a negative impact upon women. So sometimes I think I'll just give up and put ze/zir as my pronouns and leave it at that. But then every time I push back against this being normalised I get women coming up to me after and thanking me because they are not senior enough to do that, and if it comes in they will have to comply.

So if you don't agree with pronouns, and you are able to refuse please do so for the sake of others who can't refuse

Agree with those saying an impact assessment for women’s rights in the workplace required first. Might also ask whether they would mind confirming that no gender pay gap exists at the company too!

Do you have a gender? If you don’t (or if you simply don’t believe in that crap) just tell them. They can’t force a gender on you.

(I don’t refer to myself in the third person; I would prefer people choose what they think is appropriate and manage their own cognitive dissonance if necessary)

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I think 'she/they' must mean that they don't mind either the normal set of sex-appropriate pronouns or the neutrals used as singulars

Oh! Is that how it works? !!!

I had no idea.

That's just my guess as it's the only way I can make any sense of it. Yeah, having to think about how to make sense of a pronoun declaration is a really fantastic thing for inclusivity. Brilliant for people with English as a second language and some disabilities.