Pronouns in email

[Sammiesnake]

I’ve just been asked to identify my pronouns on my email signature at work and I’m finding it hard to put into words why this upsets me.

For the record, I’m not bothered at all what others choose to call themselves and accept any pronouns asked of me just as I do anyone’s name. It’s up to them.

However, I don’t want to be pointing out that I’m a female in my email signature. Why do I have to announce my gender in a work email? Why is it even relevant at all to my work? I want to be responded to as a competent adult at work, not as a female particularly.

I can’t explain how it makes me feel but basically I find it upsetting that I should have to have my gender visible on every single email I send which really has nothing to do with my gender at all!

Does anyone else feel like this? Have you managed to explain this to your workplace?
Thanks

I think the advice you've been given is really good. Just say: no, I don't feel comfortable.
Upthread someone said:
I wonder if it is actually legal to enforce staff to declare their gender identity? Whether that would stand up in court. It seems like a breach of your right to privacy which isn't actually necessary for you to do your job.
Of course, it is absolutely NOT legal to make an employee make a public pronoun declaration. It would never stand up in court as it is an invasion of privacy, so you'll be on very strong grounds simply declining or ignoring the request.
Bear also in mind that there will most definitely be others, in or outside your workplace, who think it's all wrong and who make a little positive mental note when they see that your a pronoun resister! It may not feel like it but I promise you - we are there!

@ErrolTheDragon yes it's all completely exclusive rather than inclusive. If pronouns discussion come round again at work (which they will) I will repeat my arguments but also add that pronouns are confusing for some individuals with hidden disabilities

In my organisation (NHS), we haven't been told we have to but it is recommended. So I haven't had to give an explanation for not doing so, yet. There are so so many reasons to not do this I wouldn't know where to start. I think one of the main reasons for me is that I often email patients and It might make my email appear like my needs were more important than theirs which is very jarring. I think as someone else said it creates a scenario where people would feel they can get it wrong and would be judged for doing so and that's so unnecessary.

@Chrysanthemum5
Thank you on behalf of women!! Even when you're more senior, it's not at all easy to pushback.

I'm recruiting at the moment and I would probably discount someone if they had pronouns in their email. Reading this, I probably shouldn't in case they've been made to do it! If they have it in their LinkedIn or twitter name though, it's a no.

Wonder if it works both ways, would a pronouns-in-bio person discount me as an employee? I'm out as GC on twitter in my real name and it's not that a common a name/has my real face.

We have had this at work, not mandatory but as a ‘suggestion’. I resisted it at first but had a chat with someone who suggested it wouldn’t be for ‘me’ but for anyone else who wanted to state their pronouns to be less weird basically, if we all do it then it’s not ‘odd’.

However I am now considering taking them off because actually you’re right - none of the men have done it!!

Fuck this!

This exact topic came up on my dog walk just now, and it wasn’t raised by me, either. A fellow dog walker (with whom I’ve never discussed anything like this before) has just had this debate in their work Diversity committee. What was interesting was that it was the forty something white male member who suggested it, and the hitherto woke twenty something woman who pushed back against it.

Dog walking friend asked if I’d come across this and following our conversation has requested that I send her some material on stereotype threat and difficulties for those with English as a second language.

Delighted to oblige

It just feels like we've come full circle from reducing the role of gender to almost opening to door for discrimination. I have a unisex name, like Alex, and I enjoy not being constrained by a gendered name in the workplace. This just defeats the object and does nothing but reinforce that gender is a discriminating factor, and regresses us towards to a divisive era where gender is SO important.

I received my first email this week with a pronoun declaration. Stopped me in my tracks and it still bothers me.

@babbaloushka

It just feels like we've come full circle from reducing the role of gender to almost opening to door for discrimination. I have a unisex name, like Alex, and I enjoy not being constrained by a gendered name in the workplace. This just defeats the object and does nothing but reinforce that gender is a discriminating factor, and regresses us towards to a divisive era where gender is SO important.

Precisely! And that's exactly where the stereotype threat comes in!

hbr.org/2016/08/why-women-feel-more-stress-at-work

Article on stereotype threat. TL;DR- women perform worse at work if continually reminded that we are women. If you want women to do well in male dominated environments, do this less, not more.

You have already nailed it with your update @Sammiesnake.
To be honest there are enough issues being female as work as it is. There’s enough stigma about a working mother not being as dedicated to her job (especially in lockdown with young kids at home); enough men in privileged positions (completely disproportionately to the rest of the organisation). Why would I want to point out constantly that I’m female? It really feels like shooting myself in the foot.
Just send them this, its perfect.

You have already nailed it with your update @Sammiesnake.
To be honest there are enough issues being female as work as it is. There’s enough stigma about a working mother not being as dedicated to her job (especially in lockdown with young kids at home); enough men in privileged positions (completely disproportionately to the rest of the organisation). Why would I want to point out constantly that I’m female? It really feels like shooting myself in the foot.
Just send them this, its perfect.

No idea why that posted twice

I had my first one this week where someone was she/her on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and ze/zim (or ze/zir can't remember exactly) on Tuesday and Thursday. Which really confused me - what if I write an email on Wednesday, and use the 'she' pronoun, but it's not read until Thursday?

@dumpling23 thanks - and you're right, it's not easy. I've had the discreet advice that I need to be careful because I'm becoming visible, and it might make trouble for me in my career. But I'm old, and established enough that I can fight back against that - as a younger woman would I have been able to resist the 'helpful' advice to be careful?

@Chrysanthemum5

I had my first one this week where someone was she/her on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and ze/zim (or ze/zir can't remember exactly) on Tuesday and Thursday. Which really confused me - what if I write an email on Wednesday, and use the 'she' pronoun, but it's not read until Thursday?

Surely that's a GC person showing what nonsense this all is?

@Chrysanthemum5

I had my first one this week where someone was she/her on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and ze/zim (or ze/zir can't remember exactly) on Tuesday and Thursday. Which really confused me - what if I write an email on Wednesday, and use the 'she' pronoun, but it's not read until Thursday?

Blimey. I can’t get my head around how this is supposed to make human interactions better, because I have to say that my instinct would now be to avoid emailing this person at all costs. I would be on high alert in case of committing an error.

@serendipitea

Just as 'womxn' has suddenly become transphobic, all it will take is for one fashionable TRA to declare pronouns transphobic and history will be rewritten. I hope the day comes soon.

Is womxn transphobic now then? When did that happen?

Honestly, I can’t keep up...

@TheWayOfTheWorld it's not a GC person I know the individual and they are very much a TRA so these are the pronouns we are expected to use

@Chrysanthemum5

I had my first one this week where someone was she/her on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and ze/zim (or ze/zir can't remember exactly) on Tuesday and Thursday. Which really confused me - what if I write an email on Wednesday, and use the 'she' pronoun, but it's not read until Thursday?

I just typed out an amusing reply then had to rethink as I’ve already been deleted once this week for not being “in the spirit”. Fuck this place.

I know this is on the way at my workplace and as someone who works in HR I have the opportunity to intervene and try to show how it is damaging and not inclusive or encouraging diversity.

Does anyone have some links for how it’s difficult for those with hidden disability and how it impacts for those who have English as a second language please?

I have loads on the bias against women and ethnic groups as we had a project on anonymised recruitment which was an eye opener. How many more women and ethnic groups were in the mix for interviews compared to when managers saw names and assumed what the person was like. Showing the bias in action like that is useful ammunition for equality impact assessments if anyone gets to input on those.

Or just share your pronouns, because it literally doesn't harm you at all but can make others feel more included and accepted.

Wow, talk about snowflakes...

Also for those fearing sexism, for most (not all admittedly) your name shows that you identify as a woman.

Unless of course that wasn't really your problem with putting your pronouns all along...

Did you read the rest of the thread which explores how it’s not actually harmless for women, mumbee? Would you like to discuss stereotype threat, or the fact that this policy might actually not delivery any benefit for trans people who aren’t ready to come out?