What's wrong with 'Cisgender'

[ASugar]

As someone who identifies as a cisgender woman and works in sexual health, I am honestly confused as to why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?

Now I'm not here to tell you what to say, I am genuinely curious.

However, here is my opinion for those who may be interested.

Cisgender just means you are not transgender. That your sex links you your gender and you assign any gender terms (ie. Pronouns, Gender identity, sometimes gender expression but not always, etc). I personally don't like to think that just because I was born with a vagina means I am a woman because I know many men with vaginas and women with penises. Additionally those who don't have a gender identity, then that would mean you wouldn't use women and men as they're gender terms (according to medical professionals). It would make you non binary or agender.

I understand that the term 'Cis' has been used to insult others which for that I am sorry.
My view is that if you can't allow trans women to be accepted in society and identified as women (without the need for 'trans' infront of it constantly) then we should be using cisgender. It is a medical term that professionals such as the NHS recognize. But I understand that is just my opinion.

I probably won't be commenting as I can imagine this will be filled with comments and I don't want to disrespect anyone's views. Just a cisgender woman who wants to understand more...

And as always I would appreciate if you respect my view as I'm going to be respecting all of yours.

@yeahbutnaw

Cisgender is an accurate term.

The existence of Tall women, Black women, Muslim women, and Trans women doesn't negate my existence.

They're just adjectives. I've got no idea why everyone is so offended by them.

Stop using Black Women as a comparison to Trans Women, it is both offensive and racist. Black Women are adult human females and not some tool to be used in the fight in the oppression Olympics 🤬

OP, if you respected others views you wouldn't have written your post. It's supposed to be acceptance without exception.

So if someone doesn't like 'cis' it's not for you to question that, frankly. I think it's rather transphobic to do so and pretty hateful and bigoted. You should just accept it.

Also, I know lots of male humans who object to it too. Interesting that you're only interested in why female humans object. I can only assume you just accept those male humans who object and don't seek to chastise them for doing so?

Or is the ability to self-identify extended only to one sex class?

I am a woman, not a ciswoman. Whay should I be defined as not transgender? Don't I get any say in this?

Ooh, and then there is the fact that if I am a ciswoman, men who decide they are women get to be called women because no one stucks cis in front of them so no natel women are women. Fuck that.

ASugar you are making a very big assumption here when you say that women who don't identify as transmen or NB have not experienced dysphoria. This is just not true.

OP - re "why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?"

Because many of us don't "identify with being women".

I don't identify as anything. I was born a girl (young female), then gradually grew up and became a woman (adult female).

When you call me Cis, you are making the assumption that I buy into your gender story. You are assuming that I want to wear dresses, heels, and makeup, that I like jewellery and the colour pink, that I prefer art to maths and science.

That is why it's offensive.

Also, why do you call yourself a woman if the term technically is a gender term. By the way, scientists and medical professionals have determined this.

A woman is an adult human female. Not a gender term. It's rooted in biology.

OP, would it be acceptable to be cis-race or trans-race? Would it be acceptable for me, a woman assigned white at birth, to say I'm actually trans black, and that cis black people have cis privilege and should centre me in the BLM movement? Or would that be a bit offensive and racist?

And yes, there are white people who have strongly identified as black, who have claimed to be black, and who have taken opportunities meant for black people. So it happens. And they're pilloried for it.

The word 'cis' is the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot that underpins this word that is seen as regressive and negative by feminists.

Plus, it's a word that is strongly associated with an ideology that can often be religious in its nature. It's a bit like a religious person asking you to be ok with being called a heretic. Why would you when you don't subscribe to their beliefs?

As gender and sex are separate.

Why then are you determined to conflate them?

About the only time I agreed with Piers Morgan is when he was told he is a 'cisgender male'. 'Oh, give over with that! I'm a white man.'

I found out my child's sex before I was halfway through my pregnancy. I would have found out earlier had I taken up a particular blood test. Nobody offered me to find out her gender. She's 5 and she doesn't have one. She's a little girl with a marvellous personality though and long may that continue.

If your category of "woman" includes both biological men and biological women and your category of "man" includes both biological men and biological women, then what is the difference between them?
Why does anyone need surgery or hormones to transition and what are they transitioning to/from?

So are people campaigning to get rid of gender altogether and just use sex? Or do certain communities not like this?

Sorry, I only dip I'm and out but want to start talking to DD about this.

I am a woman. I don't need a prefix.

You're conflating sex with gender. Sex is biological reality. Gender is a social construct and one I don't have an awful lot of time for.

I know my children's sexes because when they were born everyone could see one was a biological female and the other a biological male. It wasn't a case of needing to know. I just knew from observation and so did everyone else in the delivery room.

Why do we shop for clothes for different sexes? Because men and women tend to be different shapes and I'd rather have clothes that fit me. I'm quite happy to buy my own socks from the boys' section of shops because for once there isn't a problem with the fit.

I call myself a woman because it is a term that describes biological reality. I am an adult human female - the type that produces ova, gestates and gives birth to its young. Not the type that produces sperm.

However being female doesn't always mean you are a woman

It does to me - and that’s perfectly rational and fine

[quote ASugar]service-manual.nhs.uk/content/inclusive-language[/quote]
Not sure that link says what you think it does!

We use "trans woman" or "trans man" in content about the particular health needs of trans people - for example, screening or treatments that trans people need to be aware of, like advising a trans man about cervical and breast screening.

Otherwise, we leave out the word "trans" and just refer to men and women, if relevant.

Note: we use "sex assigned at birth" when we're writing for a trans audience.

So are people campaigning to get rid of gender altogether and just use sex?

That sounds good to me, then we can do away with gender roles at the same time.

@ASugar You say you work in heath, do you support single sex hospital and psychiatric wards?

Sorry, I was asking for a scientific definition of the term "woman". What does it actually mean?

I am familiar with the norms re inclusive language, but I want to know what these scientists to whom you're referring actually think the term "woman" means. Actually, I'd like to know what you think it means, because if it isn't an adult female human, I genuinely do not have any other reference points. Please do answer this, OP. Give me the scientific definition of a woman, according to the scientists that you have quoted, and your own personal understanding of what "identifying as a woman" actually means. I really want to understand this.

Nothing, it is merely a descriptive label. Certain people have decided it's a slur because they want to feel victimised/they want to trademark the word "woman" to mean only what they are comfortable with.

Also, why do you call yourself a woman if the term technically is a gender term. By the way, scientists and medical professionals have determined this.

No it isn't and no they haven't. Well... I'm sure you could find some scientists and medical professionals who might 'determine' that, but not ones who haven't been ideologically captured. A woman is an adult human female. Everybody knows this (when it suits them).

Cisgender is used to reinforce the claim that "Trans Women are Women". It requires that we accept there are different types of women trans and cis, but that what they have in common is identification with and acceptance of gender stereotypes of femininity (with trans women having been mistakenly born as the wrong sex). However, I don't believe that a woman is anything other than an adult human female and that an adult human female should be free to feel and think how they like without the constraints of gender stereotypes or the expectations that they will conform to those stereotypes. I believe that women should be working towards a state in which they are not shackled by the constraints of gender and that feminism should aim to free women from discrimination and exploitation on the basis of their sex and reproductive capacity. Accepting "cis" would be to identify with sexist stereotypes. This is a trap. I was born female and that is my lot. I don't like the way society treats women and I don't accept that I need to be happy with society's expectations of femininity. So I'm not cis, I'm just a woman, the only type of woman, an adult human female.

Asugar, keep posting. You're being exposed to so much rational argument, feminist thought and scientific reality. Lots of people have come to understand the reality of the situation in this exact way!

We have a great deal in common, in that both sides of this argument think that no one should have to adhere to a narrow gender role associated with their sex.

That's why many women and feminists have been breaking out of those roles for centuries, along with quite a lot of men. You can break out of them without denying your sex, and without demanding that everyone has to agree with you that you are a sex you are no and that your demands come before science, reality and actual women's rights.

ASugar why are you spamming us with links to other places? They aren't the last word on anything, just a list of who Stonewall got to, after Stonewall stopped being an organisation combating homophobia and started being an organisation promoting homophobia.