What's wrong with 'Cisgender'

[ASugar]

As someone who identifies as a cisgender woman and works in sexual health, I am honestly confused as to why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?

Now I'm not here to tell you what to say, I am genuinely curious.

However, here is my opinion for those who may be interested.

Cisgender just means you are not transgender. That your sex links you your gender and you assign any gender terms (ie. Pronouns, Gender identity, sometimes gender expression but not always, etc). I personally don't like to think that just because I was born with a vagina means I am a woman because I know many men with vaginas and women with penises. Additionally those who don't have a gender identity, then that would mean you wouldn't use women and men as they're gender terms (according to medical professionals). It would make you non binary or agender.

I understand that the term 'Cis' has been used to insult others which for that I am sorry.
My view is that if you can't allow trans women to be accepted in society and identified as women (without the need for 'trans' infront of it constantly) then we should be using cisgender. It is a medical term that professionals such as the NHS recognize. But I understand that is just my opinion.

I probably won't be commenting as I can imagine this will be filled with comments and I don't want to disrespect anyone's views. Just a cisgender woman who wants to understand more...

And as always I would appreciate if you respect my view as I'm going to be respecting all of yours.

Not going to lie At the age of 30 I’ve never heard of the term CIS. However I respect whatever you call yourself. To me I call myself a woman only. I was born one and will stay one. I don’t need to identify as one. I respect others choices though.

Accepting the term Cis means I have to accept that sex is assigned at birth and not a biological fact. Therefore I don’t and find it offensive when it’s applied to me
I am a woman, no prefix is required

Well said Michelle

OP - "Many people have stated that they don't agree or believe in gender. Although I disagree I can respect that decision. An additional question I'd like to ask is then why do we have to know the gender of our child? Shop in stores where clothes are described by gender? Etc."

Because people are prudes and would rather not use the word SEX.

I am a woman not a subset of a woman

call yourself what you want but do not compel me to call myself something I do not identify as

Doesn't bother me. I don't understand why people are so scared society is "taking way from" naturally born females. The reality is we are all just trying to give to those that face sooooo much adversity.

If I had to tick a box that says CIS I would, and then be grateful I was born looking like how I identify

Check your privalege

I don’t like the prefix cis. Where did it come from. It reminds me of cissy. So rooted in stereotypes.
So how about the terms malvag, malpen, fevag and fepen. The first syllable what you feel like the second what you got. It would bring some clarity without discrimination.

“Finally, the word "woman" is not a gender term. It is a sex designator.

The word for the gender associated with the female sex is feminine.”

I completely agree with this. Woman is not a gender term it is biological. Just because people are too lazy to use the correct terminology doesn’t make it right.
You can identify however you want. Perhaps gender is an important part of your identity but personally it is not a big part of mine. I have many characteristics, likes and dislikes which make me who I am, none of them are gender but being a women (biological) is part of who I am as a matter of fact.

I'm a woman, I don't see the need to define myself further.

Why should I define myself cis in order to accommodate other people's choices? You can probably see I'm a woman, I don't feel the need to stipulate this, so cis is insulting. If I had to say human woman, so people didn't mistake me for a dog, I would find that insulting too .

@heydoggie

I used to have no issue with cisgender as I thought it meant not trans.

Then I read it meant 'your birth sex and birth gender are aligned' (possibly using slightly wrong terminology but hopefully you know what I mean). And I have spent much of my adult life fighting against the stereotypes that are aligned with my birth sex, and there's not much obvious I do or act that aligns with the female gender though I'm definitely not trans or cis-gender, and I don't even come across as gender non-conforming. I just mostly wear jeans and trainers and don't wear makeup, work in a role thats more traditionally male etc etc.

I actually think it would be helpful to have a non-contentious word that just means not trans, though I don't know if that view is widely shared. Equally I'm not sure why using 'biological woman' or something similar is problematic but it seems to be.

We do have a term to describe non-transgender women. Then term is "woman"

I also think we have to resist allowing it to become a "real thing"

@GeidiPrimes

Are you taking part in some sort of cissing competion OP?

Cissing up the (stone) wall?

OP - you state you are confused as to why females find this term offensive.
Do you find males are happy to use this term or does their rejection of it also confuse you?

I hate the idea that because I am a woman (biologically) I have to think and behave in a set way and if I don’t fit that set criteria I have to identify as something else. Being a woman is not a clear set of characteristics but those born with male genitalia get to decide what characteristics women are and then they can choose to identify as being “one of us”. I find it insulting and overly simplifying the term “woman”. I find many women I have little in common with on the school playground but I’m a woman so my thoughts, feelings and characteristics, while not stereotypical for my sex, are still valid.

Cats - female adult: queen

I had no idea. Another thing I have learned today. Thanks

Why can't you just have woman and trans woman, man and trans man. I don't know why there's a need for cis anything.

Maybe OP needs to google "Die Cis Scum" and check out what 'cis' really means and who their allies are.

But I don't see why people are upset by terminology that is used for clarity as society changes

Because it doesn't give any additional clarity on an individual level, in fact it causes additional confusion by creating a new binary for something infinitely more complex.

Should a dysphoric person who does not identify as trans be labelled cis? Should other people get to decide someone is trans by fitting certain markers even if they don't view themself that way? (The OP certainly seems to think so, but many groups have spoken out against this as reeking of colonialism). It can get complicated quite quickly if we're looking at individuals.

If we're talking population level of those who socially or medically transition and those who don't, that can bring clarity of communication without assuming everyone in either population are going to have anything specific about their sense of self and identity (unless we get into something really messy like transition in Iran).

And actually, while entirely different, there are a lot of issues with applying straight / heterosexual historically and across cultures to individuals if we use current Western ideas of what those terms mean. We can get some clarity of communication be using sex-based terms like heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual, and asexual, but there are people now who identify proudly as straight who've had and pursued same-sex sexual interactions. On a population level, we can identify them one way based on demographics and behaviours, but in terms of what their identity is, that's complicated.

I am honestly confused as to why so many females (sex term) who identify with being women (gender term) dislike the term Cisgender?

Well hopefully this thread has cleared up any confusion. Lots of clearly articulated reasons why women dislike the term “cis”.

[quote ASugar]@Ereshkigalangcleg I understand that. However being female doesn't always mean you are a woman. Many people who are born female don't then identify as being a woman. As gender and sex are separate.[/quote]
Please would you tell me what you mean by 'woman' in this context? Can you give me three concrete examples of being a woman that are not related to being born female?

ASugar
You wrote being female doesn't always mean you are a woman. Many people who are born female don't then identify as being a woman

Following this logic, I presume this means that when referring to a transgender person, you would happily use the words male and female to reference their innate biology, and man and woman to refer to their 'identity'. E.g a female man or a male woman?

I am a woman. That is all the description I need.

@NigellaSeed

Doesn't bother me. I don't understand why people are so scared society is "taking way from" naturally born females. The reality is we are all just trying to give to those that face sooooo much adversity.

If I had to tick a box that says CIS I would, and then be grateful I was born looking like how I identify

Check your privalege

Last time I checked being a woman isn’t always that’s privileged.

You don’t automatically become “against” something just because you were born in a specific body, or place, or time.
I’m not automatically anti-British because I’m Irish, for instance (and I’m definitely not anti-British).
I’m not anti trans-gender because I was born female and remained female.
I’m not automatically homophobic because I am (to date) heterosexual.
Do you see OP?
A group of people who feel wronged and want to change the terms of reference to itself doesn’t get to change how the rest of language is applied.

Cis is definitely offensive as it’s assuming that the female who was born female automatically would be intending offence by using trans to a transgender person. Not so

NigellaSeed you admit you come from a position of priviledge so why force that on those of us who dont?

Why do you think people should accept genders being forced on them?