Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

[Nightinghawk]

I’m coming over from Twitter since @/MumsnetTowers has encouraged people to join, promising that they would not ban people for using the word “cis” and also that they think “Campaigning against trans people’s existing human rights and legal protections is transphobic” is “an interesting question and a debate [they’d] welcome seeing on the boards.” When asked if they believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, and nonbinary people are nonbinary, they responded with “We believe adults have a right to say what they think about matters of active public debate.” However, they do say they do not tolerate hate speech, malicious content, sweeping negative generalizations, derogatory or aggressive content on their site.

Given the conflicting messages I’ve seen from them in the past, and the fact that they to this day think campaigns against trans people’s rights could in any way not be transphobic and their hesitance to affirm trans people’s autonomy in our self-description and our gender(s), I’m hesitant to believe that Mumsnet the site is actually trans friendly. I mean this as no disrespect to the mod team or others in position of authority; it is merely my opinion (and lived experiences) that any online forum that doesn’t immediately consider campaigns against trans people’s rights as transphobic tend to have (accidentally or otherwise) cultivated a transphobic customer base on their forums. I say this as a trans person who has been leveled all kinds of harassment in a variety of online forums, where those which had not condemned transphobia had immensely more transphobia in quantity and in vitriol.

All this is to say, I’d like to hear your (Mumsnet’s users’) opinions on the matter. Is Mumsnet really a trans friendly space? Do you believe that advocating against trans people’s existing rights is transphobic or anti-trans? Do you think these existing rights for trans people are “interesting” enough for “debate”? Do you think the term cis should be censored? Am I safe asking for/providing advice here as a trans person? Why? Why not?

For reference: I am nonbinary trans and use xe/xem pronouns. I understand they can be difficult to use or to remember to be used for some people. If you don’t want to use my pronouns, then please use my username: Nightinghawk, or NH as shorthand.

Why not accept gender and sex need provisions and protections to be put under different umbrellas because gender and sex are different. Which means males (transgender or not) cannot receive protection or provision which is meant for females

Absolutely! If the primary concern is for safety and for comfort, then third spaces/equal provisions are the only practical solution. This is clear. Otherwise there is a perpetual conflict, with the supposed victim group actually becoming the privileged group - as women's feelings become secondary -to their validation requirements.

Eteri is getting a hard time because they refuse to acknowledge that their childs needs are not more (or less) important than anyone elses.

My sympathy is for the girls at her childs school who were forced to deal with issues such as the first period and learning to use tampons with a teenage male in the next stall.

Eteri, I can see that you are getting a hard time here. I can absolutely see your point of view and think most parents would actually take the same stance in your position

I don't think Eteri is getting that much of a hard time. Eteri seems pretty blunt and quite harsh on issues which are important to most of us here, and in focusing entirely on their own child, appears not to care at all about the needs and sensitivities of others.

This is the problem when pushing an ideology rather than seeking a practical solution to conflict is the name of the game.

I have never heard a girl described as “whipping out her genitalia” .

I have sympathy for @Eteri and see why transgender people need support and acceptance within society.

However, the solution is not to erode single sex provisions and protections. Surely, the solution is formulating some separate provisions and protections for transgender people?

Equally our language shouldn't erode the meaning of words surrounding biological females (it renders them nameless) but find new words surrounding transgender people which are acceptable to them. If, for example, England and America both split into factions with some people in each country claiming they were English and American, I don't think either country would allow that to stand legally with no kind of process whatsoever.

Surely, the solution is formulating some separate provisions and protections for transgender people?

This is the only solution I have ever seen, and the only opposition I have seen for it is from transpeople.

“Also, please don’t @ other posters, it’s considered bad manners.”
Faffertea, or someone else, please would you explain this? I have seen it very frequently on posts so thought that was what was expected so as to reference the post being referred to.
(This is just a simple question with no sarcasm or accusation intended.)

Doesn’t the @ send out a ‘you’ve been mentioned in a post’ email?

I don't think Eteri is getting that much of a hard time. Eteri seems pretty blunt and quite harsh on issues which are important to most of us here, and in focusing entirely on their own child, appears not to care at all about the needs and sensitivities of others.

A lot of people who spend huge amounts of time arguing for their child's needs can end up appearing blunt and harsh at times - ask anyone who has a child with a disability.

A lot of people who spend huge amounts of time arguing for their child's needs can end up appearing blunt and harsh at times - ask anyone who has a child with a disability

You obviously have some empathy based on your own circumstances; however, after taking Eteri at face value to begin with, now I'm not quite so sure. My experience with most American posters on FWR is that they have an agenda to push, rather than a story to share.

Eteri's 'child' is now an independent adult . I suspect the child angle was being used based on the fact that Mumsnet is a parenting forum.

@Liquorishtoffee

Doesn’t the @ send out a ‘you’ve been mentioned in a post’ email?

You can disable that function

Oh god how do you do that? My mailbox ends up with loads of notices!

Surely, the solution is formulating some separate provisions and protections for transgender people?

Lots of people prefer to use unisex facilities for various reasons. You wouldn’t need to create facilities for a specific group, just additional unisex facilities.

@Liquorishtoffee

Oh god how do you do that? My mailbox ends up with loads of notices!

Can’t remember - did it ages ago. Assume in profile settings?

“Eteri your male chikd had male spaces they could use.”

If I have understood correctly Eteri’s child is a trans girl. As such she might be in danger in a male space (unfortunately).

She might, however, be felt as a threat, or liable to cause an embarrassment
In the girls’ changing rooms.

In my opinion, for this reason, alternative, third, safe spaces should be included somehow.

Thanks for the answer liquoricetoffee.

If somebody is uncomfortable with somebody peeing in the privacy of a stall or sleeping in the next tent, that's there own problem

Why is this only ever directed at women? By your logic, why isn't is a transwomen's problem if they are uncomfortable peeing in a stall in male facilities?

Doesn’t the @ send out a ‘you’ve been mentioned in a post’ email?

People can switch this feature off if they don't like it.

It's the arrow next to Talk, then you highlight personalise, if I recall correctly.

No! You tease!

Web version.

By your logic, why isn't is a transwomen's problem if they are uncomfortable peeing in a stall in male facilities?

This always is discordant in my mind too? It was like that poster that had us going for threads earlier this year. It is always about centring the male child.

The problem isn't 'sleeping in the next tent', the problem is expecting to sleep in the 'same tent' as the girls. While there IS a problem expecting girls and women who have been traumatised to feel safe and comfortable while in a vulnerable situation, it gets put forward that it is THEIR problem to fix their attitude.

What happens in a school where there is communal changing rooms for PE without cubicles like at both my child's primary and secondary school? What arrangements are expected to be made then?

When you start scratching the surface of probable interactions in some schools and extra curricular activities, there is conflict. Yet, sometimes it is presented as only the child with dysphoria that has priority.

When you start scratching the surface of probable interactions in some schools and extra curricular activities, there is conflict. Yet, sometimes it is presented as only the child with dysphoria that has priority.

I think this can be a problem with special provision. People can get institutionalised. My D.C. had some special provision and individual funding to deal with some additional needs when they were small. Although, these needs caused problems I didn't see them as anything that couldn't be overcome.

However, the school wanted to cling onto the funding and were using it elsewhere so they would continually magnify any difficulties. They were very much 'managing attainment' . Thankfully, all this came to light but if it hadn't I think my D.C. would have very much got the message they just couldn't do certain things they have absolutely no problem with now. My D.C. has been a pretty high achiever. Things could have easily been very different,

By this logic why aren’t people saying ‘yes I know it’s really awful and embarrassing for you - but you mustn’t make a fuss, put up with it...’ this is what we were told when we complained that the girls changing room door opened straight into the boys changing room door (or both opposite each other with a corridor of about 4 feet in between) so that anyone changing near the door was visible.

The boys didn’t care but the girls certainly did. There was always a race to get back to the changing rooms after spots to get a spot away from the door.

No wonder I hated sports. That and the communal showers... All children deserve to have privacy and dignity.